Welcome To The Real Estate Underground Show #99!
Today, we have a special guest, Dr. George Roberts II from Horizon Multifamily. He is not only a data scientist but also a multifamily investor. George's journey started in bioscience, but after his sister suggested getting into ground-up construction, he realized there was more to life than being a tech guy. He found his talent for entrepreneurship and realized the need for better housing economics in the multifamily investing world.
In this episode,
If you're interested in learning more about George or Horizon Multifamily, you can connect with him on LinkedIn or visit www.horizonmultifamily.com. Don't miss out on the opportunity to get in touch and schedule a conversation with him!
Resources:
Additional Resources:
Welcome To The Real Estate Underground Show #99!
Today, we have a special guest, Dr. George Roberts II from Horizon Multifamily. He is not only a data scientist but also a multifamily investor. George's journey started in bioscience, but after his sister suggested getting into ground-up construction, he realized there was more to life than being a tech guy. He found his talent for entrepreneurship and realized the need for better housing economics in the multifamily investing world.
In this episode,
If you're interested in learning more about George or Horizon Multifamily, you can connect with him on LinkedIn or visit www.horizonmultifamily.com. Don't miss out on the opportunity to get in touch and schedule a conversation with him!
Resources:
Additional Resources:
And this is Real Estate Underground. Greetings and salutations, Real Estate Undergrounders. This is Ed Matthews with the Real Estate Underground podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. So today I get to introduce you to literally my favorite data scientist on the face of the planet. He is a multifamily investor, both on the active side, as a GP, as a KP, and I believe he has several hundred units in his back pocket as an LP as well. So, Dr George Roberts and I'll only call you Dr once welcome to the show and good to see you. My friend, how are you?
Speaker 2:It's great to see you, ed, and thank you for having on the show. It's a great honor, Thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I am notorious for stalking, whether it's Twitter, linkedin or Facebook, and it's how I find really smart people to have conversations like this one about. And so I actually gosh, got to be a couple years now was introduced to you through, I want to say, yona Weiss's LinkedIn channel. Oh, yes, right. And so, yona, if you're out there, thank you very much. And then had the opportunity to join your weekly networking group, which is amazing, and the amount of talent and brain power on that Zoom call every week is mind blowing, and you should charge for it, because I certainly learn something every time I'm on that call.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, George, welcome to the show and we're going to get into all that. We're going to unpack everything your podcasts, your meetups. I understand there's potentially a book coming up, although we can't talk about that, and that's cool, but I'm going to make you come back and we're going to talk about that when you're ready.
Speaker 2:Sounds good. I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so anyway, george, welcome, and it's good to see it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great to see you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, George, for those folks who haven't discovered you yet and I assume it's only a matter of time why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do, and then we'll get into it?
Speaker 2:So I'm really just a tech guy who discovered the fire of entrepreneurship. I worked as a bioscientist, became an award-winning data scientist in fintech and then one day my sister said hey, let's launch a company. Why don't we start doing ground up construction? Right, and we're just talking. A couple days back she said, hey, there are a lot of fourth or fifth generation builders in this business. There are a whole lot of first generation builders, and she's absolutely right.
Speaker 2:We picked one of the hardest businesses to break into and I just had a blast doing it and I realized there's more to life, there's more life than being a tech guy. And I realized not only do I have a talent for entrepreneurship, not only does it light my fire, but also I could repurpose a lot of what I had done. So I had learned to become a great data analyst, data scientist, and had at that point realized well, look, I don't think there's enough housing economics out there, explained from the standpoint of the multifamily investor, for example, a lot of single-formal stuff out there. But if you're really trying to get in this and you want to be successful in the business, whether you are a passive investor or an active investor I thought you know I could really fill a niche, and that really helped to provide the impetus for me rebranding as the data scientist of real estate, and that's what I'm here to do help people understand what's going on so you can invest with confidence.
Speaker 1:So it's interesting. You know, obviously you are a person of high intellect and capability. Why real estate? I mean you could do anything right, so why did you pick real estate?
Speaker 2:Every question. So, as a data scientist, I feel like part of my job is just to survey the world and make sure that I'm in the right place. Am I in the right occupation? Am I investing in the right asset class? And that survey led me directly to multifamily real estate. I jokingly call it the gateway drug to commercial real estate. But let's be clear it is more stable. It's not like buying a single tenant. Industrial Multifamily is a lot more buffer than that and I think it provides a great opportunity. And it provides particularly a great opportunity for people who enjoy people you're going to need a network more to succeed in this business and also people who enjoy numbers. If you like the finance side of things, or if you can find somebody on your team who does, then I think you've potentially got a bright future with multifamily Because, again, I think you're really merging. You're sort of sitting at the nexus of finance and commercial real estate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I would add marketing to that as well. Right, it's an industry that enables also I am a former, I guess recovering technology person and it allows folks like you and me and other people out there to utilize the skills that they created in corporate world to and directly apply to the success of a particular project and investors and your own company, right.
Speaker 2:And where you're coming from. I call myself recovering PhD.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go, so horizon was trying to make good. Yeah, that's all right. You know, just incremental improvement over the over time, right? Fabious talks yeah, so tell me about Horizon Multifamily and where that fits in the marketplace and what your focus is.
Speaker 2:Sure, so we started out a few years back, met at Dealmaker Live I was actually the last to join. I met one of our partners locally and it's a perfect example of just how you can get started in this business Get together with some people, start underwriting deals and next thing you know then you're running deals and that was our evolution. So over the last few years we've gone from analyzing 100 deals to being apartment owners now on about five deals. And my focus particularly I like the sort of middle attitudes of the country, this upper south, lower north, this area that's nice enough, it's warm enough for people to want to move there, but it just hasn't gotten quite as built up as, say, texas or Florida or Arizona. I mean there's some areas that are already starting to sort of figuratively feel the heat. And these areas that have experienced these super hot markets I like to say there's something to that. I mean, like some of them, I think, are a little too hot to touch and I don't have a crystal ball, I don't know what's going to happen and you could see that these hot markets may go on for one, two, three or five more years. But I certainly feel a lot more comfortable in a place like, say, tennessee, where I can see that it's beautiful.
Speaker 2:People love the Smoky Mountains. They love to work from home or away from home. These days, as you can do working remotely and places like that are really drawing people in Kentucky is also amazing. I mentioned East Tennessee, kentucky. These are areas that are not terribly rent constrained. A lot of people are way under 30% of their monthly income in these areas. These are areas that have room to run. What's the part of the country right now that's growing the fastest in terms of rents? It's the Midwest. So you got to remember whatever was hot yesterday is not necessarily what's going to be hot tomorrow, and when you get towards the end of the cycle, as it appears we're at right now, what was hot yesterday may be precisely what you don't want to be in tomorrow.
Speaker 1:You mean there's economic cycles and things change.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you. You know I love it. Two tech guys Maybe this is a little obvious to us, but I think a lot of people. If you're listening to a guru talking on YouTube from a year ago, I got news for you that there may be an expiration date on that advice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, look behind you. It was a little bit back. It's not today or tomorrow, right? So, as far as you know, I'm interested in you and I haven't talked about this in a little bit but I'm curious about your perspective on the market in terms of so you and I tend to chase I don't think we chase the same deals. I think you're operating in a much larger complex than I do, than I focus on.
Speaker 1:But I've fallen in love with Kentucky myself and I was actually just down in Tennessee last gosh when was that? Last September? And yeah, I mean I was marveling at the amount of built to rent and, as well as you know, short term rentals, but not a ton of multifamily activity, at least not that I saw. I mean, memphis has always been a great cash flow market, but there's lots of opportunity everywhere, but in that slice of the world it seems to be that it's loosening up a little faster than, say, where I live in Connecticut, which is, you know, everybody's high fiving when they close a deal at a four cap and I'm just cringing and praying for their successful refinance when the bridge loan comes to.
Speaker 1:So, in terms of your perspective on the market some people say we're in a recession, some people say winter is coming. I'm curious about your perspective and what you're seeing in your markets in terms of rent growth or lack thereof, as well as cap rates, whether they're compressing, expanding, whatever.
Speaker 2:Well, in my markets I think we're seeing a lot of leveling. I mean East Tennessee, it seems it's just like crazy. I mean there's a lot of you gotta remember a lot of these places. Even when you see the new leases stop going off. Okay, let's say you literally hit a wall and ask them toad. Well, you've still got a lot of loss to lease because your renewals have time to catch up. You'll increase them a little bit when you renew and when they move out perhaps increase even a little bit more. So some of those markets I think you were making a little bit of a joke about we're casting in the rear view mirror earlier. There can still be a little bit of life left there, even as you do level out. So I think I'm seeing a lot of that in my markets.
Speaker 2:I know Orlando is still growing, although it depends exactly precisely where you are. I mean we've captured such incredible rent increases that right now we're quite happy just to stay where we're at. If we can keep our place leased up. We're happy because we're doing fine. We did not buy at the top of the market, we bought quite a while back, and so I guess that's the first thing I would say is make sure that whatever you're looking at, whatever metrics you're looking at, make sure you're making a differentiation between new leases versus releases, absolutely. And then, as far as other markets, yeah, I mean, we are still continuing to see rent increases, I would say in most of the markets of the US. And it's just like I just checked out earlier today, trying to find the citation, if I can. It's $1,000 is the premium between owning and renting.
Speaker 2:So it is very, very expensive and it's been like that for a few months. We've gone a little higher and we sort of leveled off $1,000. I mean that is just insane. Or to see how we have a whole lot of new homeowners when you have that sort of premium. Of course is calculated between what is your mortgage payment versus what is your rent payment. Now people are not backing out of that how much equity you're getting in the home each month through amortization. But the point of the matter is that that's sort of wondering where we're going to be down the road five or seven years when you cash out that mortgage.
Speaker 2:That's a luxury only if you're making your bills.
Speaker 1:Correct and I've seen study after study that says that the average American has what? $400 in a rainy day fund on average, which is terrifying, but the so it's interesting here in the Northeast the last I'd say, two and a half, three years, rents have exploded and they're still growing, but, like you were saying, they've kind of stabilized. They're not growing anywhere near as fast as they were. It seems to be that they're kind of reverting back to the historical norms the three, four percent year over year, which I think is healthy, because the fact is that at least here in our market, what's driving rent is supply and 0809, 2010, 11 wiped out the general contractor class here in this area that was building multifamily. So there's been a 10, 12 year gap of no multifamily construction and it turns out human beings continue to make babies and they continue to need housing, and here in Connecticut I think we're 26,000 units behind where we need to be for the 2030 projection, which is a lot for a small state.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's huge and, like I mentioned, those are in many cases the fourth and fifth generation builders. They were out. Takes a long time for them to come back in or for new players to come back in. And another thing about Connecticut and Northeast is that I understand you're also kind of built up and that makes it harder to build new car washes.
Speaker 1:So that's another play out there. Right, absolutely.
Speaker 2:People who are buying these car washes in the rest of the country. I don't know, but if you're buying out there in the Northeast where it's really hard to find land, that stuff that's good. So anyway, I guess we can talk about car wash bubble another day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll save that for a different show, but I was always fascinated by that business model. But, in terms of the appreciation and what is your philosophy when you're going to buy? I know you're an expert in repositioning. I mean, that's kind of your wheel, one of your wheel houses, and so when you're looking at a property, what are you particularly focused on? What are you looking at in terms of the financials and the area, demographics and growth numbers and all that?
Speaker 2:Sure, I'd love to give you a citation on that last thing I mentioned about the $1,000 gap that, john Burns?
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:From the show notes. So I love to see a lot of lost release. I love these mom and pop deals, so I know you also operate in the smaller space. I think smaller units can be great. You can have a lot of meat on the bone and when we say these are small deals, if you got 10 or 20 or 30 units, that is a big deal. It's a big deal.
Speaker 1:That's way bigger.
Speaker 2:It's enormous, right, Incredibly big and it's way bigger than you know. Hey, a single family home burr or a fix and flip. So yeah, these small to medium deals can be huge and a lot of times, particularly if you get them out in a tertiary market, you can have people who haven't optimized the property. I'm looking at one right now and there's literally no advertising, not even free stuff like Google, no, yell, none of that. You can even put up a very cheap website and that's not being done either. And sure, yeah, I think it gets out on Zillow when there's, but it's really just word of mouth. So I look for these sorts of things.
Speaker 2:Properties was a huge loss to lease, where you know you might. You might look for some deferred maintenance or you might even find an operations place, somebody who's been running it okay, but they're just not running it like they should because, who knows, maybe they have the brother-in-law and the payroll and things are costing a lot more than they should, or they don't keep the occupancy, like you know that the other properties in the area are looking, and I think that's the huge thing. Now we might be towards the end of a cycle or we might be just taking off again If rates go down. I say we're in mid-cycle, as you mentioned, we're way underbuilt, so it's entirely possible that we plateau for a little while. I mean, actually we're already up. As we record this, in the middle of June, January was the lowest point in the median sales price of homes sold in the US and we've been coming back up sharply since then.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's no inventory. Yeah, I mean, there's zero. I have a property in East Hartford, connecticut, which is a secondary city here, and the realtor, the agent who is trying to talk me into selling that property, sent me an email the other day that said there is actually just one duplex per sale in the city of Hartford, east Hartford and you should really think about selling. It's a four family and you should really think about selling, because I was looking at it in terms of trading up, taking the wind because I've owned it forever taking the wind and then trading up to a much larger building and I haven't decided yet because it's my baby. It's on Clark Street in East Hartford, which is I named my company after, so it's literally the first building I ever bought.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I mean you're 100% right.
Speaker 1:There's just not a lot of inventory and so when you go to reposition of building, obviously there's the economic piece, where we look at rent upside, we look at reducing the cost envelope of the building. But where does appreciation and value kind of figure into your thinking? Are you a cashflow guy, an appreciation guy? A little bit of both.
Speaker 2:I think it's fair that we should all be a little bit of both, but I would lean toward the cashflow. It's a lot safer and, again, I think that safety is what people need to focus on right now, even though I do expect the prices will continue to rise. We are in a volatile situation right now and if the economy takes a major tumble, the four rates come down. And remember it takes time to refinance and you can find yourself with a building full of tenants that are out of a job and not being able to service your market. So you definitely want to have reserves and you definitely want to have cashflow. So I would say I would always prefer cashflow, but, yeah, there has never been a better time to have reserves on the sidelines.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so when you look at reserves, how do you judge you have enough? I mean, is it by the operating month, is it? What is the metric you use to determine what your reserves should look like?
Speaker 2:Sure, Well, one rule of thumb is that you want to have at least three months of operating expenses as operating capital. That's a great start. If you can have six months of principal interest stocked away, that's even better. Now are you putting away $250 per unit per year for replacement reserve? That's if things are going well. What if you've got to replace your roof in five years? You're not going to get there, so you have to look at the property as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not a 250 bucks a pop right.
Speaker 2:No, not, unless it was just replaced.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly yeah. And then it becomes someone else's problem 25, 30 years from now, and fortunately, you'll have saved the $250, all those pennies get put away and you could afford the roof, but you're not going to because you're going to go buy someone else. So all right. So I think I understand and you and I tend to think similarly in this fact that, regardless of economic cycle, cash flow, it's wonderful in good times and it's even better in difficult times, because that is what gets you through the winter, as they say.
Speaker 1:So, in terms of your business, I am a fundamental believer in business systems and technology. I look at a business and first thing, I think, is process and procedures. And then, okay, technology wise, how do we enable those processes so that we can make the business as simple as possible, so that when I hire people, I don't need A++ players. I can hire someone you're talking about IQ before someone of an average to above average IQ and put them in a position to succeed. So I'm curious about the types of systems that you tend to look at as you run your own business, and how do you manage them? How are you put together For?
Speaker 2:me. I think a lot of it is just getting good people and having them nailed down so you don't have to get the A++ people. I think that's outstanding, but just realizing when you need help. So I've got a VA doing all of the social for me so that I don't have to deal with that With my events. That's hugely helpful. I'm about to hire a bookkeeper because that's something that I just certainly don't have time for, even with five assets. I'm under contract on something else and there's no time left.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's high as an excuse Again yes, high as the best use.
Speaker 2:You've always got to be hiring and your partners can only go so far. I got someone who's great at construction and I can do the accounting. I actually find it interesting to a certain point, but it's really time to let that go. For me, it's just delegating and knowing when it's time to let go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, it's a really good point. How much value, on an hourly basis, do you, as the leader of your company, bring to that company? I would submit it's well above the 20 bucks an hour you're spending on a bookkeeper or less if it's offshore, and time is one of those things you can never get back. So how are you going to spend your time? That's what we were talking about.
Speaker 1:For the folks out in the audience, is that highest and best use means at this very moment, as George and I are sitting here talking, is this the best use of his time in my time? The answer is, you know, at least in my perspective, is yes, for a lot of reasons. But you know, the fact is is that I am not a bookkeeper. I do not enjoy bookkeeping. It is I make me. I make myself do it on Friday mornings before I get to do any fun stuff, so that I get it done, because then my accountant won't yell at me. And but the fact is, is that you know you've got to figure out, you know what works for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's great. I'd love to amplify that if you don't mind. Sure, going out on a podcast appearance, writing a book these are the sort of things that only I can do. Yes, delivering an interview for the foundry I suppose someday I could hire somebody to do that for me. That'll be great. That'll show that my show has really stood the test of time. But truly these sort of things like the one to many, marketing, where you are literally laying out what is your philosophy and attracting new investors, those are really the only things. Even deciding who can come on my podcast or what podcasts I should go on, even that is something that I can handle off to someone else, even as just a first pass filter.
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah, I mean, as long as you're clear on what you're looking for. I mean, that's it's talking with Neil Hube, nick Huber, who was on a previous show, and we were talking about value chain and the Tony Robbins concept, where there's communication and then there's crystal clear communication and it's okay. Social media manager, I need you to post these three threads, or these three posts at these particular times, and the creation.
Speaker 1:But the creator budget on that is X dollars and we need to do that consistently every day, three times a day, or whatever your model is.
Speaker 1:And then here's the clear part she's coming back to you saying, okay, here's what I heard. You need three posts, three threads posted at these times and for this budget. And yes, I can make all that happen and meet your expectations. And it's so important to be able to do that because it just frees you up to then go do the things that only you can do. Like truly sad yeah. So, george, I'm curious. You've had a lot of experience and you're a master networker, so I know you know a lot of people in this industry mentors, peers, whatever and so this is very much a people business. I'm curious about folks that have mentored you over the years and, in particular, I'm curious about the best advice you ever got, and I would love to know who gave it to you.
Speaker 2:Wow see, that's very good. I would say just going back to being trained as a scientist that the best thing you can do if you're having trouble with something is just go down the hall and talk to somebody who made that sort of experiment work in the last two weeks. That is the best thing you can do. So even the most technical field, it's extraordinarily important to have that network, to know who's done what. And then when you do run into these technical difficulties because when you're in a laboratory you might be one of like five in the world who's doing this sort of research and you can't call tech support and you can't really Google it.
Speaker 2:You can read research articles but that may not tell you exactly what obvious thing you're doing wrong. So that I think, might have been one of the early on the tip of networking best advice. But I'll tell you what other people forget is if you're new, you're networking, you're probably trying to get 25 business cards at the end of the night. That's not the most important thing. Most important thing is meet one person that can help you, or find one person whom you can help. The deeper you go, the better you'll be, and 25 business cards will get lost in a shoebox. But that one person that you actually intend to call, or who is going to call you because they know that you can help solve their problem, is gonna be worth 10 shoeboxes 100% agree with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, quality over quantity every time. And you know cause the thing is.
Speaker 1:Is that you need, you know, really, in order to kind of advance your thinking, advance the business you need three to five people who are willing to throw an arm around you and tell you the truth, and because, even if that small group, all that small cadre of people, don't know the answer to the question, they have their own networks that they can reach out to and find the answer within their world and then bring it back to you. So it's yeah. I couldn't agree with you more. So I know this is a loaded question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. Leaders are readers, obviously, you know, almost to a person, and so I am always interested to find out. You know, first off, how do people take in information, right? You know podcasts, physical books, audio books, youtube videos, conferences, whatever. So I'm always interested in that. And then also, I'm curious about who they're paying attention to. So those are my questions. You know, how do you sharpen the saw, so to speak, and who you pay attention to these days?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sharpening the saw is so important. My favorite habit, habit number seven from Stephen Covey. And you really have to make time for it, though, because with the on-rush of things you need to do you got acquisitions, you got operation oh yeah, it's easy to get stuck. So how I'm learning at the moment depends on what else I'm doing, because multitasking is key these days. So, these days, what am I reading? I'm reading the dichotomy of leadership by Jack O'Willing, and this is autumn, so if I'm out exercising, I'll be listening to the dichotomy of leadership.
Speaker 2:If I'm in front of my computer and I'm lifting weight, then I'm watching YouTube, and I'm probably going to be learning something about lending, because I think most people don't really understand that. And here's the thing you can watch, or listen to a thousand interviews and I hope you listen to all of Ed's interviews because they're great, and I have watched your show before but, seriously, just watching a thousand interviews isn't going to get you any deeper. What you really need to do is you need to decide what do I need? What is the next hurdle? So if you're looking for a loan right now, then I think every podcast you're listening to should be about lending. And if you're having trouble with operations, then go out and find out who's overcome hurdles with occupancy or whatever issue you're facing. Go deep. If you go deep, I guarantee that you'll continue to learn. You can just listen to podcasts randomly, maybe not.
Speaker 1:I agree. Yeah, I mean, the fact is, is that one of the things that I admire about one of my mentors? And I said how do you think about a particular subject? And what he said was I don't bounce across the top of topics, right, because I don't want to go an inch deep. What I do is I, I target a topic and I read as many books as I can about that topic, and then, you know, I consume information about that specific topic to the point where I feel like, maybe not an expert, but I am, you know, certainly an authority on, on figuring out what that topic is all about and how I think about it. Right, and so it's, it's, it's an interesting, it's an interesting perspective because, you know, most people that I talk with uh, bounce across, you know, bounce across the top of the, uh, the proverbial way of history, right?
Speaker 2:So absolutely Absolutely. I was going to show you the rest. I feel like this is the most authentic way to do it is just show you what I'm actually reading. It's what was it? Get smart by Brian Tracy.
Speaker 2:I found that on Blinkist. That's the way you can do things quickly. So we live in a day and age, yeah, where you can learn things really quickly. Yeah, like Blinkist is a great thing. Uh, 15 minutes you'll understand the gist of a book. But there's nothing like a book. Get that print book, and so I also use Amazon figure what they call it. But that Kindle Unlimited that's what it is. Yes, $10 a month and you can get 10 free books, and it seems like half the books on Amazon are free. Go get that book, hold it in your hands and you can actually look at the figures. You'll learn 10 times faster. The only reason that I learned audio visual it's because I'm doing something else at the time. If I'm focused on learning and I set the set, the uh, the work aside, then I'm reading a book, excellent, all right, so, uh.
Speaker 1:So I'm curious. You know, given the the very experiences professionally that you've had, you know, if you had, if you were 18 year old, George again, and you had your life in front of you, what would you do differently in terms of and I'm speaking specifically professionally, obviously you know what would you? Would you would you change your, your path, or would you do something different?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, obviously I wish I would have discovered investing and entrepreneurship a lot earlier. But in terms of mindset, I can tell you what I have learned is focus. If I could go back to my prior careers and just focus more you know, it always feels like it's such a slog that there's so many things you need to do but if I had taken a little more time away each day and realized that you're not going to be doing whatever you're doing right now forever, whatever it is, even if you just go to this, tell you retire, I mean, trust me that, uh, there, that there is. You know you're not going to be doing this forever, literally just a pedal to the metal. I don't know how to explain it. But when I go back and I look at my careers, just realize, look, I could have pushed a little bit harder, I would have survived, I could have focused a little bit more and, yeah, just play that much harder.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I'm 53 and I I have yet to figure out what I want to do with my life when I grow up, right, you know it's I'm on my third career there, at least, and you know, but it's, it's not a race either, right? So, you know, everyone has their path and everyone, uh, grows at their own pace. But you know, the other thing, though, is and I think it kind of dovetails in what you were saying is that the other, the other side of that, the other end of that, really, is that I have never heard of a person on there nearing their deathbed wishing damn, I wish I worked more, right? So you know, you might as well do something that kind of gives you that juice, like, you know what we do for a living, and, uh, and the excel at that, right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I know I'm excited to get up in the morning. It's certainly a lot more fun to chart your course and know that, wherever you are, it was because of your effort, because of your planning and because of your execution. Even when you don't like where you're at as an entrepreneur, I still think it's a lot more palatable than to feel like you know you're dealing with office politics or don't like the project you've been put on. All those things, I think, add unnecessary stress to your life. Couldn't agree more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's uh, uh, you are the sum total of all the decisions you've made and you are where you are because of those decisions and it's it's never too late to to make a change. But yeah, so, uh, george, I'm curious about, uh, you know, from a non real estate perspective, um, when you are are not uh chasing deals, or you know, uh meeting with uh your team? You know how do you love, just how do you like to spend your free time?
Speaker 2:It's always great to spend time with the kids, but you know we all need our Shangri-La that place you can go when, uh, you just need to be away, and for me, that's my sailboat. So, yeah, I'm going to go head out there, hopefully tomorrow, if nothing blows up or let on fire and I'm going to take that out, give her her maiden voyage of 2023. She's the Sally Mae and it's just a beautiful place to be. Now I've got to do a lot of electrical work and so this is not a voyage my wife is going to come on. We've already learned our comfort zone. So, look, if it's not 15 minutes and we're underway, then she doesn't want to come.
Speaker 2:And that's okay, because it's less fights for both of us. I'll go out there, do do the final electrical hookup and then I'll spend a little time having fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, speaking of stress, right? Yeah, you want to limit that and so understand what the goal of the of the trip is, so that you don't put your wife in a position where she asks questions. That will not go well, right? So, hey, george, as always, I've really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you again. So if people want to learn more about you or Horizon multifamily or anything else that you're doing, you know what's the best way for them to introduce themselves to you.
Speaker 2:By all means reach out on LinkedIn. I'm always there and always will be there, and you can also find me at wwwhorizon multifamilycom. That's a place where you can get a hold of my schedule and let's get to know each other, whether you are looking for deals and you think we can partner up, or whether maybe you want to get in passively. Either way, happy to talk.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you, george, it's it's. Thank you for all the wisdom and information you just provided to our audience. And you know, once again, I am going to make it when your book, when you're ready to talk about your book, you're coming back and oh you got a deal there, it's been a great pleasure. Alright well, thanks, george, good to see you. This has been the real estate underground podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe. It helps us grow. Until next time, happy investing.