Ed Mathews: Greetings and salutations, Real Estate undergrounders. It is Ed Mathews with the real estate underground. Thank you so much for joining us today. Today is once again, a really cool episode. I am joined by Shannon Robnett. He is the president and CEO, omnipotent Supreme being of Shannon Robnett industries.
Ed Mathews: Shannon, welcome to the show. I'm really excited to have this conversation.
Shannon Robnett: Hey, thanks Ed. And I think it's appropriate to mention I am in the basement of my building. I did my part to join the underground.
Ed Mathews: There you go. Hey, I appreciate that. Thank you very much. So in terms of, you know, I know your story because you and I have been linked on LinkedIn for quite some time.
Ed Mathews: And I think we know a couple hundred people, you know, overlap in terms of your world and my world. You know, for those of us out there that don't know who you are and why don't you lay out who you are and what you do for a living?
Shannon Robnett: Yeah and I was born at a very young age into a real estate family.
Shannon Robnett: And so I didn't have a lot of choices, you know, Saturdays were. Going to job sites, cleaning up around the houses, around the industrial buildings. My father was building, my mother was a third-generation real estate broker. I went on to get my license. My son who's 27 has his license as well.
Shannon Robnett: And I thought I wanted to do something different. You know, I saw the hard work involved in building things and I went to college and I. saw that studying was harder for me. And I also watched my brother right out of high school building houses. And in 1993, he made about 45, 47, 000 that year, which was a King's ransom for, you know, kid with no education.
Shannon Robnett: So I promptly dropped out of college. I went and told my dad I wanted to build houses and his first response was let's go get the backhoe. And literally we built houses. We could build three houses a year and I quickly realized that was the hard work I wanted to avoid. And so I learned to scale that business and we've built everything from city halls to fire stations, to hospitals, to medical facilities, to schools, you know, you name it, we've built it.
Shannon Robnett: And I saw in that evolution, Ed, that when I was done building the building, I had to go find another project. I had to go find something else because the money didn't come in every month. And at the same, this about that same time, I watched my parents retire at 50 years old with cashflow. And over the course of their construction, they had been building, but they had also been keeping some, and they had a portfolio of industrial properties that have afforded them the exact same lifestyle today, 23 years later that they had when they retired, because with inflation, with you know, price increases, rent increases they've been able to live that same life. And in 2001, I built my first industrial complex for myself. I did that as a As a single check writer, I was the only guy standing there.
Shannon Robnett: And by the time I got done, I almost bled to death. And you know, I think all of everyone in your audience has been down that road, right? Where you take on something and oh my goodness, it hurts. And then you re you remember what cashflow was, you know, like laying on a desert Island and remembering what ice was like, you know, it was it was not fun, but I began to build a real estate portfolio.
Shannon Robnett: And I also learned that if I helped other people. Make money, they would help me with my projects. And so for the next 12 years or so, I worked with single check writers. They would bring the money. I would bring the project, we would do the deal. And at the end of that venture, whatever it was decided to be, we would part ways and everybody would be more profitable and along that road.
Shannon Robnett: I just saw that, you know, as my projects kept getting bigger, my dependency on capital became greater. And in 2019, I I stuck my toes in the syndication world. And for those of your listeners that don't know, syndication is just a really fancy word for partnership. And that partnership allowed me to move through larger projects.
Shannon Robnett: It allowed me to involve investors with as little as 50, 000 in 80 million projects, and it allowed an avenue for both parties to be very successful and to. Get to the goal that they wanted to get to. And that was important for me because I was able to advance my companies, but I was also able to provide something that people were looking for.
Shannon Robnett: The ability to be involved in real estate, to take advantage of all the tax benefits without having to get out there and figure out which piece of land to buy. What kind of building to build, what rents to charge, all of those kinds of things. And so here I am today in the last four years, three and a half years, we've raised about 60, 64 million in syndicated capital.
Shannon Robnett: And we're currently involved in projects in six different states.
Ed Mathews: So when you go to raise capital. Let's start. Let's start there. Is it predominantly, obviously you've been doing this for a while. You have a tremendous reputation. So I would imagine a lot of people come to you, but in terms of creating that relationship with the investor, you know, obviously there's the, you know, the awareness piece, and then you've got to build trust.
Ed Mathews: And that usually comes down to serving them in some way or another. And at some point in that relationship, you're in the right to do business, right? And you know, walk me through your process in terms of, hey, you know, you just met Ed Mathews and he's an accredited investor and he's thinking about investing, but doesn't quite know, you know, what to do yet.
Shannon Robnett: You know, Ed, you would be an anomaly as an accredited investor. Most of our investors are non accredited. And what that means is that they either have a network less than a million dollars or as a single person, they make 200, 000 annually, or as a couple make 300, 000. And the difference with that is, is the ability to advertise.
Shannon Robnett: And we won't really go into that, but the reality is the thing that I think I do well is help educate. So we just met the first thing I would want to know is Ed, what type of investor are you? Are you a cashflow investor? Are you an appreciation investor? Are you a tax? Centric investor because there's really three stages of your life that you come into as an investor, you know And it unfortunately or fortunately it has a lot to do with your age, right?
Shannon Robnett: So as a 20 to 35 year old you're looking for appreciation because six percent cash on a hundred grand Isn't going to buy you much more than fuel in this economy. And then as you progress and you become more skilled at your craft and you get into a two, three, 400, 000 a year income, now all of a sudden taxes become your priority because giving away a hundred grand every year to our favorite aunts and uncles in Washington, isn't anybody's idea of a good time.
Shannon Robnett: And so that becomes the reason that real estate becomes much more attractive. And then the later stages of your life. When you're focusing on how to get out of your JLB, how to walk away and live the life that you've always dreamed of, you get to be more of a tax or a cashflow person that's looking at, okay, now I've grown that portfolio.
Shannon Robnett: I've done it in a tax-advantaged way, and now I'm sitting with enough that. A 6 percent cash on cash does work, but my goodness, the last thing I want to be is a landlord. How can I accomplish that goal? And so we help people through that. And in that education process, we're really able to, in my opinion, build that trust because I don't really have anything to sell you.
Shannon Robnett: I honestly don't, I have opportunities that if you understand them and you find value in what I'm offering. We can be great partners, 100 percent agree with that. If those two things aren't there, then it's really difficult for us to have a relationship where it's symbiotic and it's good, right?
Ed Mathews: Yeah, it's so true. And that's the thing, you know, with folks that I meet that are just starting out, you know, I get the classic three, you know, answers when I say what's stopping you, it's I can't find the deals. I don't have time. Cause I work 80 hours a week and I've got responsibilities.
Ed Mathews: And then the third one is I don't know where to get the money to fund it. And you know, the money part is interesting because there's a mindset shift that has to happen there. And because you're not asking for money, you're offering an opportunity to help them get to wherever they're trying to go on their financial journey.
Ed Mathews: And it's a very different conversation. There are zero sales involved.
Shannon Robnett: Yeah. And you know, this is the thing, Ed, you know, I grew up, like I said, in a real estate household, I've never known anything but real estate. And when you talk to somebody who's, you know, grew up in a I don't know, a car dealership family, you know, all they understand is cars and they understand them really well, and they understand what ones are valuable and this and that.
Shannon Robnett: But, you know, the thing that we've all been programmed. And I do say programmed is that there are two things in life. There's death and taxes. I would argue that there's only one of those because if you play the real estate game properly, as most of your listeners know, it's a very tax-advantaged game.
Shannon Robnett: And when you do that, you begin to compound your ability to make future investments. You know, we were able to help the average person save. A tremendous amount in some cases, a hundred percent of what they were paying last year in taxes and create tax-free cashflow that then allows them to invest faster and build more and have, you know, that snowball effect happen so that at the end of the day they're living a tax-free life.
Shannon Robnett: Or really close to a tax-free life. And they're doing it even if they have a full time job. And they're able to do it in a way that makes sense for them.
Ed Mathews: Yeah it's interesting. You know, I get, it's it's an interesting approach because most people don't fundamentally understand the whole concept of depreciation and accelerated depreciation.
Ed Mathews: And, you know, the fact is that you can wipe out most, if not all of the cashflow that's flowing in and that's. Assuming that it's going into your regular, you know, either brokerage account or bank account, you know, when you get into the retirement world it's, you know, just as compelling because you can use your self-directed IRA to invest in real estate in a passive way.
Ed Mathews: You're not pushing any paint brushes, you're not collecting rents, and and it allows you to grow, you know, tax. Tax-advantaged. I don't want to say tax free you know, until you're ready to draw up, which is really powerful.
Shannon Robnett: And you know, the other thing too, Ed, you know, one of the things that I do every year and I really encourage people that, you know, there's a lot of people out there doing, you know, a lot of people get into real estate, started with the wholesaling, right?
Shannon Robnett: That's the question. Answer the question. How do I get the money? I don't ever have to own it, but I get paid on it. And I think that's the hardest. Literally the hardest thing to do. Cause you're looking for a needle in a haystack. And then once you find it you're going to look for another needle in another haystack and link those two up and have a sale.
Shannon Robnett: Yeah. But then they go from that, they go to fix and flip, then they do the burst strategy. Then they go to, you know, multiple units and all that stuff. But what I tell people is I said, pull out your tax return. If you're a W2 employee, pull out your tax return. If you're a business owner and you own a detail shop or, you know, cabinet manufacturing shop, pull out your tax return and then divide your gross income by 52 weeks and then divide it again by 40 hours in that week.
Shannon Robnett: And that is your billable rate, right? So if you just think about that, you're going to go buy a new house, right? You're going to buy a new rental property, and you're going to spend 40 hours by the time you've. Get with a realtor, find it, locate it, do those kinds of things. That is what you're spending to be the owner of that home.
Shannon Robnett: As far as you, what your time is worth. And every time you go change a light bulb, deal with the water heater, because you're going to save money on property management. All of those conversations continue to happen. Where people don't realize what their time is worth. And when you really do get a hold of that concept, a lot of people make a lot of different decisions based on real estate, because they realize that real estate can be just buying another job.
Ed Mathews: Absolutely. You know, the fact is that you know, we go through this process every quarter, me and my team. So I have a bunch of VAs that are in the. Philippines and then obviously we've got our, you know, management and construction folks. And so we go through this process of, you know, what's stressing us out and what's working really well.
Ed Mathews: And the stuff that stresses us out, you know, we do one of, you know, a handful of things, right? We're either looking to automate it. We're looking to delegate it. We're looking to outsource it, or we just stop freaking doing it because it's You know, the last thing that, you know, I wanted to do when I started this and we have, you know, we're much smaller than you, but we own our multifamily properties.
Ed Mathews: We have a management team in house and then obviously we have contractors that handle the break, fix and maintenance and all that. But, you know, the last thing I want to do a, because I'm not as qualified as. As the guys that work for us, but B, I just I look at, you know, my rate to use your example, you know, and I can't be spending time doing a, you know, 30, 40 an hour job because the value I bring to the company is way more than that.
Ed Mathews: And so I got to do the stuff that I do, which is, you know, meet investors and find new deals.
Shannon Robnett: And, you know, that's very well said too, because, you know, I don't know how your company runs, but if the cabinet door has to be fixed and I have to do it, we're going to need to fix it again. I can do it, but I'm going to get there and I'm going to have a straight slot instead of a Phillips. And then I'm going to go to And then there's somehow there's going to be an ambulance involved, you know, But it's really about understanding what do you do best? You know, I've got I've got quite a few doctors and attorneys that are investors.
Shannon Robnett: And what they do is bill out at 600 an hour, right? They know and understand that world. And I have two. Things that I do for them. One is I provide them with tax benefits and two, I stay the heck out of their way so they can bill 600 an hour. And those are the things that we're able to do. And just like you, I am the highest and best use of their time.
Shannon Robnett: So where they're going, when I need legal advice, I don't go to Wikipedia. I call them or I, when I'm not feeling well, I go see them because they're specialized in that area. And so many people think that they have to be the answer to their own problem. And in doing [00:13:00] that, they typically cause maybe a bit bigger problem by being able to, you know, not take advantage of certain things.
Shannon Robnett: They don't have the free time. They missed the kid's soccer game because they were replacing, you know, a ceiling fan or something like that. And when you really look at that, everything costs money, what's my highest and best use, you really get. A really great equation for where you spend your time in life, let alone real estate.
Ed Mathews: Couldn't agree more. Yeah. There's a book and I'm sure you've read it. Cause you're speaking basically right from the same hymnal as, you know, who, not how right. Dan Sullivan book. Yeah. Me too. I read it a couple of times. You know, I read it at least once a year to remind myself because I'm that control freak.
Ed Mathews: We'll be like, you know, who's my propensity is towards it's okay. I'll do it. No. That's not and you know, that whole delegation automation, you know, process that we go through is based almost directly on the premise of that book. You know, the, you said something interesting that I'm really, I'd like to drill into, you know, in terms of highest and best use, you know, as real estateprofessionals, You know, you look at a, you look at a piece of land or a, an employee or a contractor or anything, right? And if you're like me, you know, and I think you are absolutely are, you know, you're looking for, what is the. I don't know. Call it a superpower. What is the superpower of the person, the human being standing in front of you move everything else out of their way so that they can go do that, right?
Ed Mathews: So if it's an investor, it's, you know, being a world-class doctor or an attorney or whatever, if it's an employee, you know, I think our job as leaders is to. Is to clear the way so that they can clear out all the noise so they can do what they do well. You know, I was talking with another entrepreneur a few weeks ago, Nick Huber, and you know, one of the things that he said really stuck with me, which was that the, you know, his job as CEO is to, you know, create systems that an average person can succeed at.
Ed Mathews: And, you know, I, we all try really hard to hire superstars, but but the fact is that the you know, there is. There is a, you know, there's a reality that
Shannon Robnett: Yeah, and you know, there is, there's a reality. And, you know, one of the things that I've also found is very helpful in that entrepreneurial space is to help educate the employee as to what their superpower is, right?
Shannon Robnett: Sometimes at you and I see things in people that they either. Don't think they are right. So you're going to nurture that characteristic in them, or they don't think they want to be right. You know, you got the guy that's really good at handyman stuff, but man, he sure wants to be, you know, the superintendent and that kind of thing.
Shannon Robnett: And when you really show him. Look, you're really good at this, and when you're doing it at your best, you're making as much or more as the other guy, and if you want, I can put superintendent of fixing stuff on your business card, right? But if you can really help people to understand that this is their superpower and have helped develop them into a person that understands that superpower, you know, one of the things that I really hate is drilling into detail.
Shannon Robnett: I look at it and I go, you know what, this is going to cost us 80 million and I take that number and I go through the categories and I go, okay, excavation is going to be 1. 6, you know, plumbing is going to be 2. 7. I don't need to get into the bath count, right? But there's that person in my organization that loves to make sure that we have 64 bathtubs, 64 toilets, that we didn't miss one, that we got the clubhouse.
Shannon Robnett: That they're all coming with shower rods, right? All of the things that need to happen. And they love nothing better than to be this deep in piles of papers. And if you put me there, you'd put me in a straitjacket. I would literally lose my mind.
Ed Mathews: Yeah. It's what in my previous life we used to call brain damage, right?
ED Mathews: It just, it flat out stresses you the hell out.
Shannon Robnett: And when you find that other person that feeds them and they really enjoy that, you know, that's how you build the team and it's no different with the investing world. You're finding that person that gets stressed out when they think about, Oh my gosh, I'm signing on the loan.
Shannon Robnett: I just put myself 400, 000 or a million dollars in debt, you know, and how am I going to deal with this and what's going to happen? And the tenant called it's two o'clock in the morning. I gotta be to work at six. You take all of those things and you go, man, what is your superpower? Because we can offshore that we can, what would you say?
Shannon Robnett: Delegate outsource or, you know, just quit doing it. But the reality is there's ways around that. And when you really look at your life and go, this is my goal. This is what I need. This is what I want. This is what I'm prepared to do to get there. There's a big gap there that doesn't necessarily have to be it.
Shannon Robnett: And people forget that, that there's ways to do that. And with that, with educating people as to that option and that opportunity, we found tremendous success in being able to get people incited. About joining us because they truly understand it, right?
Ed Matthews: Yeah. And you know, that's when you get people that become, you know, they grow into, you know, the compassionate about what they're doing, because they feel and they see that they're actually contributing in a significant way to, you know, whatever team they're on, which is you know, as human beings, I think most people, they just want to be appreciated.
Shannon Robnett: And they want to, and they want to feel like they're contributing for sure. Yeah, absolutely.
Ed Mathews: Yep, without a doubt. And yeah so in terms of your team, you know, what does your employee base look like versus your, you know, your contractors, the folks you outsource to? Do you have a, you know, a large team in house or do you outsource? Do you tend to outsource?
Shannon Robnett: We go back and forth. We're breaking ground on a 40, 000 square foot industrial facility for an international stone dealer that we have a 10 year lease with. It's a syndicated deal. And so in that regard, we have an outsourced contractor, right? So I went into the marketplace. I interviewed four or five contractors. I found one that I really got along with because at the end of the day, construction is about communication.
Shannon Robnett: And so I found a guy found a team. He's got a good office. I like him. We're breaking ground that way. So I've got an an internal manager here that's overseeing that process. You know, we do we have in the past done our own property management. There's a scalability to that where you get to a point where it makes sense to hire outside and then it.
Shannon Robnett: Again, makes sense at a certain unit count to bring it back inside and we've gone back and forth on that. I think ultimately bringing it inside is the best option just because there is ultimate control. It's, you know, if you're less than 2000 units, you're probably not going to make money on it.
Shannon Robnett:: It's not going to be a money making venture. However, when you can be completely in control of your NOI and act and answer to your investors as the owner of the property management company, doing absolutely everything, including something that may be detrimental to a property management company but in alignment with what the investors want, it's a much better scenario for everybody.
Shannon Robnett: So we've gone back and forth on that. But, you know, construction is so crucial to the timeline, to controlling things especially where most of what we do is ground up. It's hard for me to relinquish control, even though I'm not going to be the one that wants to get in there and drive the actual nails.
Ed Mathews: Yeah, you know, and there's a happy medium there too, right? Is, yeah, you can still outsource and control. You're just managing the manager as opposed to managing the project. And, you know, as long as you have that partner that you trust who's, you know, their superpower is execution, you know, it tends to work out real well.
Ed Mathews:: And then it just comes down to clear communication.
Shannon: Exactly.
Ed Mathews:: All right. All right. So we've been talking for about 2025 minutes. It's time to get into the final 4. I ask every single guest these 4 questions. Hopefully they aren't stumpers. I'm sure you've heard some of them before, but you know, I'm always curious about.
Ed Mathews: You know, leaders and how they've grown and gotten to, you know, the point, the station of life that they're in, both professionally and personally. So I'm curious about, you know, the advice that you've gotten, what is the best advice you've ever gotten? And who gave it to you?
Shannon Robnett: You know, the best advice I've ever gotten.
Shannon Robnett: Was from a guy that and the way he said it was probably as eloquent as a 70 year old man, 20 years ago would have said it, but he said, I'd rather be standing on the street corner, selling pencils than working for somebody else. And what that really meant was you have control of your own destiny.
Shannon Robnett You have the ability to, whether it's sell pencils or computers or whatever you are in complete control. And with that comes everything that goes with it. But the other side of it is your. 100 percent responsible for what happens with your life, right?
Ed Mathews: Yeah. And you know, it's interesting that it's one of the things I was thinking about when I was hearing your answer is, you know, like my wife and I are complete opposites, you know, where the classic opposites attract and, you know, she views having a job as security where I view it as, you know, a huge risk that I'm, you know, I'm basically operating on the whim of the folks that work above me. And if they like me, I'm okay. But if something bad happens or. You know, they stopped liking me.
I got to go find a new gig and there's no security in that. So I think I'm more of the pencil seller myself.
Shannon Robnett: Yeah. And even in your wife's scenario, you know, if she is in a place where she understands and she has built a replaceable employer, you know, she's got a very marketable skillset.
Shannon Robnett: Yeah. She's in the driver's seat. Yeah.
Ed Mathews: She's an accountant. So yeah. Yeah. She's okay. And she's damn good.
Ed Mathews: You know, the other thing that I've seen when I meet executives and lead and, you know, business leaders is, you know, they tend to be, you know, leaders tend to be readers, and these days that doesn't necessarily mean a, you know, physical book. It can be audio books or webinars or conferences or YouTube videos or whatever. I'm curious about two things. One is you know, how do you consume information in your daily life? And also, you know, who are you paying attention to these days?
Shannon Robnett: You know, I consume information through all of those channels. It's hard for me to get past a physical book. I. I retain so much more, but, you know, I do audio books. I do webinars. I'm a big proponent of master classes or, you know, conferences. And, you know, I really think that, you know, we have such a, we have such a Fountain of information available to us.
Shannon Robnett: We can get podcasts on everything from healthy eating to end of life decisions to, you know, real estate and some people equate real estate to end of life decisions. But but you know, we. I think there's a lot out there, but I think the biggest thing, if I'm listening to podcasts, I'm listening to guys.
Shannon Robnett: I really like Joe Rogan just because he covers everything. He can bring you a wealth of information, but he's going, he is at a level where he's attracting the top of his game. And the other one I really like right now, as far as podcasts goes at my lab, that guy's got such a handle on self improvement and pod or in, in mindset.
Shannon Robnett: And, you know, you can apply that to any facets that you're in. And I really. Really appreciate those guys. Yeah.
Ed Mathews: Finding a way to operate at your peak as long as possible throughout the day is hugely valuable to someone, you know, guys like you and me. All right. So last question. So if, you know, when you're not talking about real, actually, let me take a step back.
Ed Mathews: So if you had to start over. Some guy in Connecticut waved a magic wand and said, all right you get to start over, but you get to bring back all the knowledge that you have. What would you do differently at, you know, that, that juncture where you were deciding to get into building houses?
Shannon Robnett: You know, I would go absolutely opposite of my friend that said to go sell.
Shannon Robnett: Pencils on the corner. Okay. I would go get a job knowing what I know now and where I want to go. I would go get a job with the people that were doing it. Then I would go get a job with them and I would learn everything I could from them. I would create the systems from their. I've spent 27 years becoming an overnight success, right?
Shannon Robnett: I think I could do it in 12, right? If I was given the chance, because really getting inside somebody else's system and understanding why they do it, we do it this way because for the last 30 years, we've been improving our systems and we've got it to here and glean that knowledge. And maybe I'm going to two or three, but I would probably spend the first decade of my life working for people for the complete purpose of.
Shannon Robnett: Of gaining information for myself. And then I would look at launching out from a much higher platform, I believe, than where I'm at right now, even when I was able to step away from that. And I know that's a little contrary, but you know, there's not a school for entrepreneurs. There's not a. You know, there's not a trade school that says, hey, come get a degree.
Shannon Robnett: And, you know, you go get a degree in business management, but managing a business and owning a business are totally different and how do you put all that stuff together? So that's what I would tell myself.
Ed Mathews: Yeah. I, you know, I think that there's absolute value in that, you know, you get to basically work for.
Ed Mathews: The people who become your mentors, right? You know, I went to school and I was an English literature and mass communications major, right? You know how much I use daily? I actually, so I do use a little bit of it, but yeah, you know, it would have been so much better had I gone to work for construction, you know, a general, a large general contractor, or, you know, someone who's in the private equity space that would have been that would exactly, you know, I wouldn't have spent 24 years slinging software.
Ed Mathews: I would have spent five years doing that. And then, you know, at 26, I would have 27, I would have been out on the road, you know, doing what we do instead of starting it. Exactly. Yeah, no, I hear you. All right, Shannon. So when you're not talking about real estate, what do you do for fun? What do you like to do?
Shannon Robnett: You know, this will sound funny, but I love tax savings and I love fly. And so I've been a pilot. I'm a third generation pilot, but I started a flight school. Because I use section 179 and every year I depreciate another airplane or two. And so as my flight school grows, so does my tax savings. And so does my ability to go have fun on the weekends.
Ed Mathews: And your plane collection, right?
Shannon Robnett: That's correct. That's correct. And it's really justifiable when your accountant says it saved you money.
Ed Mathews: Yes. You know, you've got to, you got to grow your business. You have a responsibility.
Shannon Robnett: Right on.
Ed Mathews: Oh, that's awesome. So Shannon, I've, as always, I've enjoyed our conversation today. If people want to get in touch with you or learn more about you, your business, any projects you have coming up, what's the best way to get in touch?
Shannon Robnett: You know, easiest way to do that is just shannnonrobnett.com. You can get, you can see the projects we have going. You can see what we've got on our plate. You can get ahold of my calendar. If you'd like to book a 15 minute call, just you know, get to know each other, maybe grab a tip or two. I'd love to get to know your audience and see what I can do to help with the education process.
Shannon Robnett: Maybe some connections, anything like that. So that's all there. It's at shannnonrobnett.com. You can get to all my social channels and everything.
Ed Mathews: Okay. Awesome. Shannon Robnett, thank you so much for your time today. It's good to see you, sir. And I'm looking forward to keeping in touch.
Shannon Robnett: Be well. Thank you, Ed. I appreciate everything you're doing with this podcast and providing information to your listeners. Thank you.