Real Estate Underground

The Landlord's Guide to Smarter Tenants: No More Crazy Stories with Joel Miller

• Ed Mathews

Share episode

Send us a text

Clark St Digital helps you grow your real estate company with:

  • Amazing Overseas Talent who cost 80% less than their US equivalents
  • Done-For-You subscription services
  • Done-For-You project services

Go to ClarkStDigital.com to schedule your free strategy meeting.

Additional Resources:

Find Us On Social Media:

Ed Mathews:

Greetings and salutations. Real Estate Undergrounders. It is Ed Mathews with the Real Estate Underground. Thank you so much for joining us today. So today is an interesting show in that we discovered our guest. A friend of mine gave me his book and I read it I can't say in a weekend, it probably took me about a week to read but nevertheless really enjoyed it, thought his approach was unique and then spent the last couple of months trying to figure out how to get him on our show. Joel Miller, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak with you and I'm really looking forward to this conversation.

Joel Miller:

It is my pleasure. I've been looking forward to this too. This is going to be really good.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah, it should be great. For those of us who haven't discovered you out in the audience, can you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Joel Miller:

I'm based in Erin, Pennsylvania, and I have last month, from when we recorded this, I had celebrated 47 years in the rental property business and about 1991 or so, started flipping houses, flipped over a hundred houses and then, about 2018, got into hard money lending and I get great satisfaction out of being a part of the equation for many of the other investors in my area here, providing money to finance their flips or acquisitions of keeper rental properties that they want. And I asked you earlier, before we came on and I'll tell the audience what we were talking about I asked you if you ever had a professional mobile disc jockey on your program before, and that was something that I did. I pioneered the mobile DJ business in this part of the country back in the mid-70s and I after being on the radio for a while and you did that for 35 years, 5,057 appearances, and retired from that about 14 years ago. But I bought my first rental property just a short time after starting that and a short time after I graduated from college with a degree in accounting. So that is my educational background.

Joel Miller:

But doing two things like that having a career that you're passionate about and having a rental property is the premise of my book Build Real Estate Wealth.

Joel Miller:

Enjoy the Journey of Rental Property Investment. Because the book deals with rental real estate to your already busy life, when you don't necessarily want to give up a career or vocation or some hobby that you're totally involved in that. Having the rental property in addition to that can provide you additional income and build your retirement, because a lot of those things people are involved in it isn't building a retirement for them and, as you and I both know, that is certainly one of the features of investing in rental property is, of course, cash flow along the way and retirement income and perhaps cashing in and then having money when you're retirement from selling your property, something like that. But I also in the book, of course, provide information about how you can just supercharge your existing portfolio if you've already taken a step to invest in rental property. If, in fact, you want to get to leaving your day job you know a job stands for is it's just over broke If that's your goal to do that. So the tools are in there as well.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah, excellent, and it's something that I talk with folks that I mentor all the time, and that is you do not need to leave your job. This is, and there's so many ways to get involved, whether that's as a side hustle, like you were talking about, or as a passive investor, where you're investing in someone else's project, like you do today, and any number of ways. You don't have to necessarily be the landlord right.

Joel Miller:

Yeah, that's right, and I think that there are really three main reasons why people don't think that real estate is for them. They don't want to invest and again, that is actually one of the target audiences of the book is people who don't think that real estate is for them. And it's the first to stem from one of the misconceptions that people have about rental real estate that it's all about broken toilets and bad tenants. So we try to dispel the myths about those sort of things. So one of the reasons why people don't invest is because they don't want to deal with the mechanical part of it actually working on houses and so we talk about how to do some of those things, but also the fact that it's totally okay to pick up the phone and call somebody to do something for you that you don't know how to do, and so, if you're the owner of the property, your skills that you want to develop might be more with learning who to call as opposed to how to do it yourself.

Joel Miller:

And, of course, the other thing that I mentioned was interacting with tenants, and that is perhaps the biggest skill that you need to develop, and I will take that back to before you're actually interacting with the tenant. You already have to talk about tenant selection, which is totally key I talk about in my classes that I teach and in the book about how your ability to select tenants is in direct proportion to how good of a time you're going to have in this business. Because you might be really good at finding deals or even financing deals or even doing the work on the properties, but if you don't know how to select the tenants that are going to use your thing that's valued tens, maybe millions of dollars for an extended period of time without your direct supervision, if you can't get really good at making those selections, then it could go really bad for you, even though you have the skills with finding the deals and working on the properties. Couldn't agree more.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah, a difficult tenant is one of the biggest stressors in a property owner's life, right, yeah, and so what are your thoughts on how to make sure that you're obviously there's fair housing? So there's a qualification process. That happens, but in terms of the qualifications of a good resident, what are you looking for in particular?

Joel Miller:

First of all, I just want to complete the answer to your last question, just to make sure we don't leave anything hanging. The third thing is, since I did mention there were three things, the third thing is people are afraid of losing money. Yes, learning the skills for property selection as well and managing property, managing contractors, managing tenants Property management and tenant management are actually two different things, and tenant selection is part of tenant management, but those are things that are overcome by education. Education overcomes fear, and so it boils down to people not wanting to get involved because they are afraid of something they don't know 100%. So the key is to become educated, and that is what the book is about, and sometimes you win, sometimes you learn, but in any case, if you become educated on something else that you don't have to fear anymore and of course, then you need to take action you can learn all.

Joel Miller:

Go to all the seminars you want. People they just think that they need to just go to that one more seminar or take one more class and that finally they're either it could be they're either going to buy their first property then or, one way or another, they might have some property going to that. One more thing is going to make them rich. But it's not that. It's what you do with the information. You have to take action and then beyond that you have to be committed to seeing it through, because you start some action and unfinished it, so that kind of doesn't count all the way. You have to take it all the way through. Right on that there's. There can be some pitfalls. Did you hear about the landlord that was seeing a clinical psychologist, a psychiatrist and a licensed counselor and he had an apartment complex? Yeah, he had a complex. He had to go see somebody. And that joke works on two levels, because an apartment complex could drive you crazy. You don't know what you're doing.

Ed Mathews:

Can and will.

Ed Mathews:

If you don't figure it out

Joel Miller:

yeah, of course, a realtor could see somebody because they can't get closure

Ed Mathews:

Right, Indeed.

Joel Miller:

Closure on a deal, of course,

Ed Mathews:

As opposed to emotional closure.

Joel Miller:

But of course a tenant or a landlord is really just a realtor without a sense of humor,

Ed Mathews:

Without a sense of what?

Joel Miller:

A landlord is, just a realtor without a sense of humor? Yeah, that's In some cases. But anyway, to answer your question, what are we looking for in a tenant? Yeah, one of the first questions I ask people is how many? Like I'm talking to a caller, somebody that responded to an ad of some sort and, by the way, this is not where tenant selection begins. I say a question like where's tenant selection begin? I want to say when you get a call and you start talking to them.

Joel Miller:

Tenant selection actually begins when you are thinking about the possibility of maybe buying some real estate. Because if every decision you make after that from the type of property you're going to buy, to the location of the property, to the condition of the property, how you prepare the property, how you advertise the property, all you know there's a whole string of things that happen before you even talk to somebody about the apartments that you have available, and every one of those things is slightly narrowing, or more defining the universe of the people that are likely to respond to your app.

Ed Mathews:

Sure

Joel Miller:

Location, the property, all that stuff we're talking about. So let's say you've got them on the phone, sure, are looking for places. They might make a list of places to call and they just simply might write the wrong phone number down. Like we have a two bedroom advertised and they are looking for a four bedroom and they just call it wrong.

Joel Miller:

So we just wanted to assure you that I don't spend a lot of time on the phone talking when somebody's got too many people and then, depending on what your preference is with pets, I'm going to ask whether they have answered and go from there, and sometimes they might say yes. I said, what do you have? And they got an hamster. I'm not worried about the hamster, I'm not talking about other furry things that can walk around on their own. If you're a no pets property, that would be one first things established. And then I, we all, we have all of our units are not smoking. That's my next question is are you a smoker? So then, beyond that, the really important stuff of course to establish is what their income is, because they have to prove that they can pay the amount of rent that you have. There's the whole list. Yeah, we would ask for that.

Ed Mathews:

Sure. What do you look for in income relative to rent?

Joel Miller:

Generally, let's say, the apartment does not include utilities and generally like the take-home pay, not the gross. The take-home pay about three times whatever the rent is per month.

Ed Mathews:

Okay, interesting you clarified that to take-home rather than overall.

Joel Miller:

Yeah, yeah, because who knows what's coming out of a paycheck overall? Yeah, yeah, because who knows what's coming out of a paycheck? They might be paying all kinds of stuff like child support or who knows what might be deducted that they don't have usage of in their net pay. And you get what I'm saying is you have to. You're looking for how much cash they actually have available, not how much they grossed, and the part about whether it includes utilities or not. If you were including a lot of utilities that they otherwise would have to pay on their own, like gas and electric, for example, then I don't think you need to have the same multiple because you're not worrying about them using their money to pay utilities outside of your rent.

Joel Miller:

That's standard, but it's good to make the distinction of whether it's gross or net.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah, and your points are well taken right. Folks can have garnishments, they can have additional taxes taken out for whatever reason, any number of reasons why they would have additional money coming out of that net, say five $6,000 a month. Money coming out of that net, say $5,000, $6,000 a month.

Joel Miller:

There's nuances there, though. You have to develop some skills to discern how you feel about their income. If they're self-employed, it could make a difference whether you're talking. It would make a difference whether you're talking with somebody that's established in a business. Then they can show you however many years you want a Schedule C's for what they reported on their tax return, and somebody who started their business two or three months ago and you determined that it's a seasonal business Got it Just to take a couple of extreme examples there.

Joel Miller:

My theory on tenant selection is that it's up to the tenant to qualify them and not for you to work to qualify the tenant. Your job is to eliminate everybody in the world until you find somebody that is likely to pay the rent on time and not be to place up, and then only time will tell still even in that case. But landlords sometimes get inexperienced. Ones might get involved with trying to overlook something that is a negative on somebody's application, or because they like the when they just want to figure out how they can qualify them Like we won't worry about that thing or that. No, you have to just look for every reason why you don't want to rent to somebody and make them prove you wrong as far as how you're looking at the information.

Ed Mathews:

Totally agree.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah, the fact is that we have, here at Clark St, we have a hard and fast set of qualification items, and it's binary you either meet it or you don't. The one thing, there's only one thing, that we are willing to work with you on, and that is healthcare have brought your credit rating down below where our standards are, and it's due to the fact that you had to bring your child to the emergency room, or you had to go to the emergency room and you're you know, and that that health care facility has dinged your credit that we can work with you on.

Joel Miller:

Other than that, a whole other life situation than just deciding that you're not going to make your car payment or you're going to make your credit card payment because those are optional things that you chose to do and now you're paying for them or you're maybe not meeting your obligation to pay for them, whereas that health situation was probably totally beyond control.

Ed Mathews:

Exactly. Couldn't agree more, okay, so, as you're buying the property, you're thinking about the profile of the type of human being or human beings that would live in the building. What's the kind of next step for you in terms of looking at these properties and evaluating them? Looking at the properties with the tenant? You're talking about One of the things you said earlier was that you're already profiling the type of the, the economic facilities of the resident and all that when you're buying the building. So what else are you looking at?

Joel Miller:

10 minute selection begins with the selection. The building is what you're referring to. I think that you are making those decisions as you. You go along. First of all, if you say I want to invest in my town, there you go. You've narrowed it down to just people that live around where you do, as opposed to oh, I'm looking for an apartment complex in the next state or something like that. But and then you're.

Joel Miller:

You either are accepting the type of tenant you're going to get with the type of property that you're going after because you think that property itself is a good deal, yeah. Or you are thinking of a certain type of person you want to rent to and then you try to go find the property that somebody of that description is likely to want to rent. I tend to just chase the good deals and then rely on my skills to do the best I can with the type of tenants that property is likely to attract, the best I can with the type of tenants that property is likely to attract. And, of course, when you're advertising a property, you never want to advertise the type of person you want to have in the unit you want to, or else you're going to run afoul of, perhaps, discrimination issues. You always want to describe the property or the units you're offering and hope that the type of people you want are attracted to what you have to offer.

Ed Mathews:

Yep, okay. So when you're buying a property and you're mentoring somebody else to buy a property, what does the capital stack usually look like? You mean the type of financing. Yeah, are you more of a private financing or are you more looking at private financing? Are you looking at bank financing with partners? What do you usually advise?

Joel Miller:

Well, let me answer that by telling you the first property that I bought in January of 1978, I got from savings and loan. I financed it with a savings and loan with 20% down from my savings at Adam Org, which got refinanced a few times over the years, and then it finally paid off because I still own that same property. You really that's great Cash out.

Joel Miller:

Yeah, because I still own that same property. You really, that's great. The cash out, yeah. And then I can tell you that is the last property that I bought with conventional financing using a realtor, other than a couple of nice apartment complexes. That was in the past six or eight years after I retired from DJing Yep. All the other ones were owner fundsfinanced with low amounts down. Okay. And in fact I have a son who is he turned 19 over the winter but he graduated from high school last June and he bought his first rental probably about a week after he graduated from high school. That's awesome With auto financing 5% down, 30-year amortization, 6% interest, 8-year balloon at $10,000 off of the asking price, which was originally $135,000. We got it for $120,000.

Ed Mathews:

Good deal and it follows a lot of the instructions that I've used over the years.

Joel Miller:

Yeah, but of course as a hard money lender, I get involved with the equation from a different angle there. When people are wanting to, we lend under two circumstances. One, the investor is borrowing money to buy and or rehab a single family home that they are going to sell to a third party who is going to live there, in which case that's a flip to a third party who is going to live there, in which case that's a flip. Or we're lending to an investor who is wanting to buy and or rehab a keeper rental property that they need to stabilize in some fashion, either with a rehab or putting different tenants in there, perhaps and certainly getting higher rents, in order to stabilize that property and make it attractive for long-term permanent financing from a bank, in which case we get paid off whenever they have the refi closing for their permanent financing.

Joel Miller:

But in that case what has happened is that I have given them all the money that they needed to buy the property and closing costs and all the rehab, and they had an interest-only payment each month as they worked their way toward getting conventional financing. But in the meantime they are forcing up the value of the property so that by the time they go to get the bank financing and the bank gives them 80% of an appraised value, that 80% is more than the 100% that they owed me and they still leave the closing with money. So they got that property for nothing. Now it's just cashflow and equity growth and take your profit down the road. That's a good model right there? Yes, it is. So you have to be sure, when you do something like that, if you're an investor, that you do in fact have a relationship with a bank, that you're going to be able to get the long-term financing or loans for a year, generally within a year and a half.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah, and usually I find for the audience out there, I usually find that those types of lenders in terms of the bank end of that conversation like the refi out, you want to find portfolio lenders, and portfolio lenders tend to be your local credit unions, your local banks, folks where you can walk in and shake the hand of the person who's making the loan decision.

Joel Miller:

Exactly.

Ed Mathews:

You build a relationship. We're not talking about Bank of America and Chase, who don't view you as a relationship. They view you as a number and the same thing is true with hard money loans.

Joel Miller:

I only deal with the investors that are in my immediate geographic area, my county, the next county. We're close to Ohio and New York along where I'm from an area where I'm halfway between Cleveland and Buffalo, a little tiny part of Pennsylvania that touches Lake Erie. I'll lend in that whole area. But what I sometimes have to discuss with investors that have gone online and found some quote unquote hard money lender for states away. You know that I said look, the further away your hard money lender is from you and your property, when they can't view your property and get to know you personally in the local landlord association, the more that hard money lender is going to seem like a bank and act like a bank in terms of underwriting and so on. So to your audience I would say if you're interested in doing hard money lending, look right under your nose.

Joel Miller:

Is that the other investors who might've been in the business for a long time and have maybe accumulated some capital and maybe they've recently sold off some properties or they have some money to lend, but at the same time they're not just somebody that's never been in the real estate business who happens to have a pile of money and thinks they want to do hard money lending, which I strongly recommend against. The only reason why it works for me is because I've done everything that any investor has ever asked to borrow money for me, for I've done your at some point in the past. Oh, I can walk it with you, and sometimes at the end of that walkthrough because I don't land on any property that I'm not going to, I don't see I'll ask some questions during that interview or that walkthrough and by the end of that they're absolutely sure they do not want to buy that. That's something that I saw.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah, the fact is that sometimes the best deal is no deal.

Joel Miller:

it's better to put this how do I say it sometimes? A a missed opportunity is better than a guaranteed loss.

Ed Mathews:

Yes, amen to that all right, Joel, I could talk for days with you. Oh yeah, so I want to get into our lightning round. We call it the final five and pretty easy questions. I just want to. I just want to know and help the audience understand how your brain works and what makes you tick. So with that we're going to dive in. Okay, all right, sir,

Joel Miller:

I heard these questions before.

Ed Mathews:

That's the idea, right? Okay, I want your off the cuff answer. I'm always interested in how and what gets people out of bed on Monday morning, and so in the way that I think about that is purpose, and so I'm curious about what gets you out of bed on Monday morning. What is your purpose?

Joel Miller:

I have really enjoyed this career to the point where now it's not just about just making more money, it's about giving money back. So I'm real active in the community with my time and money, both in the community at large and in my church, and just being able to make more of it so I can give more is exciting. That's great. That's what keeps me going. That and the fact that did I mention that 19 year old that wants to come up with a real estate business yeah, so he keeps me sharp, put it that way because he's got a lot of questions.

Ed Mathews:

That's what kids it's. One of the beautiful things that kids do for us is keep us young and fire a whole bunch of questions at us. Smart kids do, so that's good, all right. So second question I'm always interested in mentorship, and not only providing mentorship, but also receiving, and so I'm curious about the mentors you've had in your life. What's the best advice you ever got, and who gave it to you?

Joel Miller:

The best advice is don't take advice from anybody you wouldn't want to change places with. That's good.

Ed Mathews:

That's all I got to say about that. Yep, that's good. Yeah, no, no need to elaborate. How? About mistakes? I think and you alluded to this you either win or you learn, right, I think, is what you said, and I fully subscribe to that as well. So I'm curious about a mistake you made in your business that you learned a valuable lesson from it. How'd you recover from it?

Joel Miller:

From a professional standpoint, speaking strictly with real estate investing, the biggest mistake that I made was when I replaced the existing managing partner in a three-way partnership that owned a fairly large commercial about a 60,000-foot office building, yeah, and 50% of that building was from a. It was the corporate offices of a catalog showroom type company and 25 of it was a well-known local restaurant and bankrupt. And that was in like September, uh, one year and by November both of the entities I just mentioned had gone bankrupt, and first into chapter 11, which is a workout, and then chapter 7, whatever. It just went on all together, and so that was the beginning of the years of trying to put out fires. And so the lesson, really, that I would point to is that if you are buying any type of property and it seems like this would be most applicable to commercial property, where you might have some large tenants and some small tenants, as opposed to residential, where you've got a whole bunch of tenants that have the same size of apartment and same amount of rent the lesson would be to do a little bit more digging into the financial condition of the major tenants.

Joel Miller:

I think I might've been able to uncover what was going on with these companies and maybe not done that deal, because there was a lot of hardship, especially with me being the managing partner and so on, and we made it through.

Joel Miller:

But I can tell you that at the end of 10 years and so on and we made it through, but I can tell you that at the end of 10 years I gave my share to the other two partners. I gave it to them just to be out from under them, yeah. But there is one silver lining to this whole thing and that is that I met my wife in that building because she, one of our tenants, was a realtor in one of their branch offices and she worked in that office and, as the managing partner, I kept an extra key ring in there in case I were to show up at the building and didn't have my key ring with me and decided I needed to do something. I could go into that office and retrieve my extra keys, and she was the keeper of the keys. There you go, yeah.

Ed Mathews:

So it's worth it.

Joel Miller:

Yeah, just to give an example, there can be a silver lining in every difficult situation.

Ed Mathews:

There usually is, and that's a pretty good one. Okay, I'm also interested in how leaders like yourself, how you sharpen the saw, how you continue to learn, and I'm curious about the book on your either virtual or physical nightstand. What are you reading these days and who you pay attention to?

Joel Miller:

I had to read my own book on podcasts. I don't have a book at the moment, but I make sure that I keep up with things that are put out by some of the people that I follow online that are putting out things like, for example, relating to this FinCEN thing we've gone through lately with the registration of the entities. Well, if you want a couple of books to recommend because I do go back and look at these things every once in a while I would recommend Napoleon Hill's book Grow Rich with Peace of Mind, but he also wrote Think and Grow Rich. Yeah, sure, the copyright on my copy is like 1967. These are older books. Write on my copy is like 1967. These are older books. And then the one by Sterling Sill is how to Personally Profit from the Laws of Success, and all it is is 99 laws in here and a chapter for each law 33 laws.

Joel Miller:

But Sharp though I teach, it's sharpened me to write the book, which took over years, and I teach Landlord 101 to the members of the professional organization of landlords that I've belonged to since the early 80s and in fact that would be a big recommendation that I would have is wherever you are. Find your local group, like-minded investors and landlords network and rub elbows and ask who they use, what a contractor they use for this, or ask what bank they use for that. You don't want to be an island in this business, and that's one thing that has been a big part of my career is my membership in that, and I've been on the board since probably 2009, I think. I'm vice president and I teach classes and that keeps you sharp, wonderful.

Ed Mathews:

All right. Last but certainly not least, how do you define success?

Joel Miller:

Like I said, I sometimes teach these classes or end up talking in front of people or masterminds and so on, and I am known for what I'm going to answer this question with, and that is that if I had a choice of losing all my money or losing my relationships, I would lose my money in a heartbeat because my relationships will help me get my money back.

Joel Miller:

Correct, if I make a bunch of money and lose all my relationships, I would have nobody to share that with and that wouldn't be interesting. So, really, success having a degree of money that you maybe set a goal to have is could be part of living a successful life, but it's not. The thing is more what kind of person you are, what kind of relationship you have with your creator and the people that you love and that you and your community. When you leave, is it going to be a good footprint? Is the world going to be better from you being here for a while or not? And that's the areas that I look in a person for their success. You don't impress me if you have a whole bunch of money, and I can see that you don't treat people right.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah, that's a big turnoff for me as well. We used to in my corporate days. We used to have this test where we would bring somebody in that we were recruiting and we would send someone who was pretty low on the totem pole, like a receptionist or a maintenance person or somebody, to interact and to see how they'd react. And if it was yes, sir, no, sir, yes, ma'am, no, ma'am, thank you and please, then they were probably someone we wanted to deal with. But a lot of people fail that test and that was a pretty easy test.

Joel Miller:

I have something here that is extracted from my book. I just keep it handy and I'll read it to you. That kind of touches on what we were just talking about. Watch your environment it produces your thoughts. Watch your thoughts they lead to your words. Watch your words they lead to your actions. Watch your actions they set your reputation. Watch your reputation. It influences your limits. Know your limits. They determine your destiny.

Joel Miller:

Envision your destiny and you will avoid negative environments. Which takes you back to the first line about watching your environment. But that's what I think of when I think of trying to live a successful life is doing things like that, and I also encourage you to use your ability to handle your first stolen business money and to create cash, of course, but use your cash to create wealth, and there's a big difference between riches and wealth. I spend a whole chapter on that and it's not the same. It's the difference between wisdom and knowledge. Knowledge is just the facts. Wisdom is knowing what to do with the facts in the right fashion and then use your wealth to create a great life. By enjoying your great life, share your joy with your relationships. Your relationships will help you create more cash and a cycle starts Indeed.

Ed Mathews:

That's great. So, joel, when you're not talking about real estate, what do you like to do for fun?

Joel Miller:

I have six things that I do real quick Ski, snowboard, mountain bike, whitewater rafting and going down a river, and things like ropes courses and just things like that. Unfortunately, I can do them with my son, and he likes to do those same things, but the thing I spend the most money on, though, is probably four-wheeling.

Ed Mathews:

Fun but expensive habit.

Joel Miller:

Yeah, yeah, those things those machines aren't cheap.

Ed Mathews:

And you certainly live in the right part of the world to do all those things. So,

Joel Miller:

yeah, we have four seasons here.

Ed Mathews:

Yep, absolutely so, Joel. If folks want to get to know you or learn more about you, obviously they can get your book Build Real Estate Wealth enjoy the journey of rental property investment. They can find that on Amazon and other websites. But if they want to get in touch with you, what's the best way to do that?

Joel Miller:

They can find me on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram and X. What I would encourage people to do and this is my call to action is go to my website that's created your book. It's joelmillerbooks. com, J-O-E-L-M-I-L-L-E-R-B-O-O-K-S dot com, and on the front page or on the homepage of that, scroll down. There's a button there that you can click on. It'll show you the entire table of contents, fairly detailed table of contents for the book so you could see what we cover. And we cover everything from mindset through formation of an entity in which you could invest in acquisition of the property, financing the property, acquisition and management of tenants and property and so on, all the way through either evicting a tenant or keeping a tenant and, in addition to that, best practices for any kind of business. But it's slanted toward the rental property business. To keep your life and your business out of calamity. I'm all about, don't have the calamity in first place. Takes some precautions with the way you have your record keeping, because we do cover office creation and management and taxes and preparation and tax. It's all there.

Joel Miller:

And if you get the book, at the end of the, we do cover house flipping, but the book is primarily about rentals, but there's a short chapter about house flipping and at the end of that there's a QR code that will take you right to a bonus information on the how-to of house flipping. I didn't want to include that on the book. Use the QR code and you get the whole how-to house flip thing. You could see the whole table of contents and the other thing that you can see on another button is sample writings from each of the chapters. Two or three of the key paragraphs for each chapter is there and you can really get an idea of what it is.

Joel Miller:

And then, like I said, the bonus material is there if you have the book for the house flipping but that's what I would encourage you to do and there's information about my background, of course, on there, but it's a fairly concise website. It's not something clunky and unuseful things on it, All right, but it'll take you. There's another plenty of buttons on there that'll take you right to where you can buy it on Amazon. We don't sell it from the website. You just click on a button to Amazon. Buy it there.

Ed Mathews:

Got it, Joel. I've really enjoyed this conversation. I learned a lot and I'm grateful for your time today. It's a pleasure to finally meet you, and thank you again for taking the time to meet with us and to help educate our audience.

Joel Miller:

You're very welcome, Ed. It was my pleasure. I hope we've gotten underground a little bit, gotten a little behind the scenes.

Ed Mathews:

I feel like we have

Joel Miller:

Talked about some stuff.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah, excellent.

Ed Mathews:

Appreciate it All right. Thank you, Joel. Have a good night

Joel Miller:

You too.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Ed Mathews - Clark St Capital

Host