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The Secret Investment Power of Timberland Properties with John Brenard and Terry Myers

• Ed Mathews

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Ed Mathews:

Greetings and salutations Real Estate Undergrounders. It is Ed Mathews with the Real Estate Underground. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Ed Mathews:

As we have discussed in the very recent past, multifamily is certainly one asset and flipping houses is another and certainly near and dear to my heart.

Ed Mathews:

But one of the other things that I'm always looking for is opportunities to learn about new asset classes and, as you've listened to the last several episodes and thank you for that, by the way if you've been hearing us talk about contractor yards and land and a whole bunch of other storage and a whole bunch of other opportunities out in the real estate space. And today I'm joined by actually a really unique offering and it's something that I've looked into and it's something that my partner, mike Meyer, and I have dabbled in a little bit and we're starting to get really into it, and that is Timberland and land. And with me today is John Brenard and Terry Myers from Southview Timberland Investments and they are based down in Georgia and are looking, they are raising a fund and going and buying a whole bunch of land and we're going to talk about that and a whole bunch of other stuff. So, guys, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us today.

John Brenard:

Thank you, it's so great to be with you.

John Brenard:

Looking forward to hearing about this topic and why we love the asset clash and talking about our backgrounds. And you got Terry on the phone as well and Terry say hello.

Terry Myers:

Hello, thank you for having me.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah, truly my pleasure. Guys, yeah, for those folks that haven't discovered you yet, why don't we talk a little bit about your backgrounds and what Southview Timberland's all about?

John Brenard:

Yeah, sure, I'll go first, John Brenard. I'm the managing director and founder, one of the co-founders of Southview Timberland Investments. 15 plus years in finance and startup, worked for some of the biggest wealth management companies JP Morgan, smith, Arnie, wells Fargo Advisors. I was a key member of a startup. After the wealth management career, we built that company and sold it to a publicly traded company, so that was a great thing. So, really, I built two successful businesses in my career. One was the wealth management business scaled that from zero to over $100 million in asset, and then the second one was a startup that we built and then sold to a publicly traded company.

John Brenard:

I'm a Timberland investor with background in the financial markets, really focused on expanding access to Timberland investing. You may wonder hey, this guy was involved in wealth management and startups. How did he get involved in Timberland? It all started back in 2008, 2009, when my family bought a Timberland investment property and switched me on to it. But we can talk more about that origin story in a little bit. But, Terry, you wanted to give a little bit on your background.

Terry Myers:

Yes, I'm Terry Myers. I've lived in Georgia all my life and I've basically grown the farm and being access to timberland and the different opportunities that it presented itself in different times. And I just started out timberland and selling timberland, acquiring my own different means of methods of keeping it and over the past 30, 35 years to build a network of around 12 000 acres of just having connections with meals and stuff and friendships and people. That in the general area of joy here which is the high timber in the UEDIS now and I'm up with John's folks, they bought a piece and he and I got to talking. He says, hey, you know what you can buy this thing to a bigger tier. I said that seems like a good idea. So here we are.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah, and another tier is, to say the least, right, and you guys have built one heck of a business, and so congratulations on that. The asset class John you mentioned, and Terry, you've got a sounds like a pretty deep and broad experience set with regard to these types of properties. But, John, I know your family bought Timberland. What about it is so attractive. I'll throw that out to both you guys. What about the investment is so attractive and superior to some of the other asset classes that you can invest in.

John Brenard:

So happy to talk about this, I really talk all day about it.

John Brenard:

But really the biggest thing really two biggest things I love about it is it's a real asset. It's something you can put your fingers and toes into right. It's something that I really feel comfortable presenting this investment to any family, any friends, because their dollars are going into something that's a hard asset. The number two thing is the level of control you have with this investment. So all the other strategies that are offered to a lot of investors. You're at the winds of the public markets right. You can have a very diversified portfolio of stock. If it goes down 30%, right, there's not a whole lot you can do. You can hold on and wait for it to recover right.

John Brenard:

But with us and Timberland, biological growth is always taking over with those trees. As you and I are sitting here talking, those trees are growing right, and so our product is becoming more valuable every single day, regardless of what's going on in the stock market or with interest rates or inflation. And to me, I just love that, love that control. And the way that we buy property is typically with all equity, right. We typically buy the properties outright, we don't take on a lot of debt and so we're really not beholden to anybody. So those are two big reasons. I could talk about other ones as well, but I'll let Terry tell you why he loves the asset class as well.

Terry Myers:

Number one like John said, it's an asset that's tangible, that you can lay your hands on, you can live on. You also can recreation on it for outdoor use. But there's so many different avenues. You can go this day and time with Pine Timberland and not only are we focusing in Georgia, mainly because that's where mainly the most of the meals are, but covering the whole Southeast. Yeah. But what we like about Georgia so much right now is the growth pattern that's going on in the Savannah area with the ports and stuff and it's just really creative.

Terry Myers:

You have multiple fields with land. You may buy it as a timberland and you know somebody interested in HBU. They see a different use board or whatever and along comes with that. We've been implementing pine straw. That's come with that. We've been for many times problem. That's a great venture we've taken on that. It's using for mulch around houses and just different to me. And the hunting leases and stuff says hunting is going crazy or just simply just my lease of people, probably not so much for hunting but just taking a family out and enjoying just having a campsite on. So we could all kind of multiple vendors, probably ourselves. A lot of people aren't doing that. We could any way to extract value for our investors?

Ed Mathews:

Yeah, so let's break that down, terry, because that's an interesting point that you make. Actually, there's a couple of different points that I'd like to explore, but let's talk about the usage first. When we talk about timberland, what we're talking about here is you growing pine to then send to the mills, to then sell to lumberyards and the Home Depots and Lowe's of the world? yes?

Terry Myers:

yes, that's very true. And most timber funds that's strictly all they do is concentrate on the timber growth itself. So we've added these other avenues so we can create more cashflow with the property. So, yes, the basic Timberland investment is the tree itself.

Ed Mathews:

Selling board feet. Right?

Terry Myers:

Yes, Sir

Ed Mathews:

All right. So yeah, and actually you hit upon exactly what I wanted to explore. We've had guests on that have talked about RV parks and mobile home parks and farmland and land where they are hunting lands, as well as any number of other things, and you've touched upon a thing that I'm curious about, and that is how do you track the folks that are on your property? 12,000 acres is a lot of land and I know that's not even your corporate portfolio, that's just Terry's portfolio. Are you giving access to, say, hunters or hikers or campers? Are you setting up the specific areas where you're allowing this and then somehow gatekeeping access to the land? Like, how does that work?

Terry Myers:

So pretty much each tract of land is in different areas or whatever. My history for the past 30, 35 years with different people. It just brings on. I've got more customers than I do have products, it's just. And so occasionally what happens is you'll sell off a piece or in the middle of the boat you know they'll have to go where the hunt or whatever, put them back on the list when you do acquire. A list of hunters is longer than the list of what I've got product for and it just keeps climbing as far as that, because that just seems to be a big recreation.

Terry Myers:

And then also, like I said, some people might not hunt, they might just want to come and just have a place that they can lease and set a camper up on, just enjoy it outdoors. You know, I mean, it's just, it's really took on a broad spectrum people wanting to get out on these vast lands in rural Georgia or rural Alabama or wherever in the southeast. So it's really been and there's so many more avenues to go and have interest at different levels. You mentioned something about all the bee parks. That's another thing. Our camper zone just just very recently didn't have water. We've set some camper spots up that they leased these year round. There's just a lot of avenues there to create revenue from this.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah, it's fascinating, and so you're setting these up as local businesses. Or are folks finding you on an app like on X or like how are they figuring out? Hey, I would love, there's a huge property that I want to go hike and how do they?

Terry Myers:

Mainly it's just word of mouth from previous customers. They might have a guest that comes with them. There's no formal advertising. But I have the product like that because right now I'll reach other properties from a joint landowner and tie into that. But it's mainly word of mouth and just customer from past customer service.

John Brenard:

Fascinating. Yeah, I just want to add to what Terry said. And we've really set up our fund to be a four plus timberland strategy. So really, at the core of everything we do, the land that we buy has to be a good timberland investment. And in learning this business through Terry over the last I think last time we checked how long we've known each other, it's been going on 18 years. Really number one is you got to pay attention to the soils, you got to pay attention to the mill infrastructure. So those are really the two key things that we look for and Terry had some other things he can add too. But that has to be the land that we buy has to be good timberland investment. Then we typically have two or three of these other activities that we can offer to create additional income, like the recreational leases like we're talking about.

John Brenard:

Our fund also allows for farmland leases. So what often happens is we buy a thousand acres 700 acres is timberland and maybe 300 acres is farmland. We'll be sent out to a professional farmer and get the cash rent from that farmland lease. We've done svelte bone towers. We've done the pine straw harvesting, which we can talk more about how that works. Of course, timber harvesting, pre-development, highest and best used opportunistic land sales. So it's really we've done mineral rights, so really we do all the different activities. The core is that it has to be a good timberland investment right. That's the number one thing, and then we usually get these other two or three activities to create income from. So just wanted to just make that point as well,

Ed Mathews:

And it's a great point. I'm glad you did, because me and my partner, Mike, have just gotten into development and we're working on a smaller, much smaller parcel I think it's like 58 acres but looking at it from a highest and best use perspective, there's so many different things you can do in terms of, for instance, with this particular project it's probably going to end up being a single family or a townhouse development or work with the local government to figure out what they'll approve. So far they're pretty amenable. But the other thing that is interesting and you mentioned a couple of different unique assets, cell phone towers, I think is what you mentioned is solar fields. So here in the Northeast I don't know what the market is down by you guys, but here in the Northeast there's a pretty significant push to utilize land that you can connect to tri-phase electrical infrastructure, and what I mean by that is wires on the main roads with transformers and whatnot. The ground leases for those deals are quite lucrative and I know cell towers is very similar.

John Brenard:

Yeah, and we're not incorporating solar panels in our strategy right now, but we're not saying that's off the table. Really, the most productive use of our land right now is timberland, because of how strong of a market that we're in. There are some encumbrances that come with those solar panel leases. I mean, Terry's been in this business long enough that he's seen these projects and they get sold over and over again to different investment companies Maybe Luce who owns that lease and then those solar panels become obsolete and then you have an EPA issue cleaning up those solar panels. There's risks with every activity that you do. For now we're going to stick to our core method that has worked for Terry for 30 plus years and for me for the better part of the last 10 years. But we're keeping a close eye on those kind of peripheral strategies to maybe put some corners of our portfolio into those methods. It's a great point, yeah.

Ed Mathews:

And the point is that you guys are getting real creative with how you are leveraging the value opportunity within each of these properties, and it varies, I assume, from every property to property right, right.

John Brenard:

And that's the differentiator of Southview versus some of these bigger TMOs or the publicly traded timber reaches. These guys are managing millions of acres, right. It's just very hard for them to monetize those properties the way that we can. It's just very hard for them to monetize those properties the way that we can. So our niche is really focusing on the mid-sized properties 500 acres to, say, 2,500 acres and we're just able to be a lot more hands-on to rate that outsized returns for this asset class, whereas some of those bigger timber reed they're doing that four to six percent return. We're doing at least double that on most of the deals that we do.

Ed Mathews:

Wow, nice, yeah, and it's mainly because it's too many cats to herd, right? It's when you're dealing in millions of acres or hundreds of thousands of acres. It's you've got to stick to your knitting and do one thing well, because if you try to do too many things, you're going to get buried. That's awesome In terms of how you acquire. You mentioned equity. Now I believe you guys are raising a fund. You don't do syndications. Can you walk me through the thought process of how you approach that?

John Brenard:

Yeah, I'll take the operating why we've chosen the fund route and then Terry can talk about the acquisition process because he really runs Timberland Acquisitions and Operations. But we're raising a fund right now. We're raising a $50 million fund to pursue this strategy and the reason we've done that route because we've done some indications. We've been doing friends and family deals for a long time and those are great. That fund really allows us to have that cash on hand to just move a lot quicker. Because that's really that's the differentiator with us versus some of these other groups is just being able to do that due diligence in a time we get to the closing table, because that makes a difference with the sellers too. You can get more advantageous terms if you can get to that closing table a lot quicker. So, having that cash on hand with the fund, it just makes a lot of sense for our kind of strategy. But, Terry, if you want to talk more about how we source deals and about our network in the region and and so forth.

Terry Myers:

So, being in the business 35 years, I bought, sold some land attraction landings as high as three times. So a lot of times, people getting older, people going a different direction or people simply just wanting to get out of that track maybe it's about if there were a small one there, they'll call me and say, hey, I'm interested in some of this. Do you have anything else? That's one way of locating property. And the second is knowing these groups, other groups that you've asked. Sometimes I can reach in there because I've got a purple relationship for most of them. And cherry pick, I'll try it, it's in my network. And then the third opportunity is a lot of time is just simply family estates coming to an end, where you know they've been divided up, and those families a lot of times say, hey, we've not been there and we don't want that asset. And the more we agree on something. I bought several different properties in that way, so it's always just the 35 years experience with knowledge, different managers.

Terry Myers:

that's managing other people's property that I got a relationship with. So that brings a lot of attraction to the buying table

John Brenard:

And to replicate if they were a first-time Timberland investor and that's what we're providing at Southview is we're eliminating that, that learning curve.

John Brenard:

If you can make the decision that, hey, I'm interested in investing in timberland in a real asset, that's a great inflation hedge, that's uncorrelated you say, hey, I want to invest in the asset class there's really, you know, you have the publicly traded REITs which you get the volatility with those and you don't get the same returns. Or you have to go work with the TIBO, where you have these Timberland Investment Management Organizations. You typically need $50 million, $100 million. You need to be an institution to go work with them, have them build you a portfolio, and what we're offering with Southview is, at a very reasonable minimum to get that boots on the ground experienced operators in the asset class. There's no learning curve, right? This is not a concept that we're trying to prove right. This is a method that has been perfected over decades and we're going to get you involved in our network from day one and access to these unique deals that we find.

Ed Mathews:

Okay, that's fantastic, and so tell me about the typical investor. Is this an investment that is for accredited investors, or how do you guys operate that way.

John Brenard:

So our offering is a Regulation D 506C offering. Anybody who comes into our fund has to be an accredited investor. The minimum is a hundred thousand for the fund. But our investors that we have. We work with registered investment advisors. We've been onboarded to the Charles Schwab Alternative Investments Platform. You have to be invited to get onto that platform and some RIAs who like what we're doing and see it as an alternative for their practice and a differentiator, asked us to get onboarded to that platform.

John Brenard:

We're getting a lot of traction in the RIA channel and then also just high net worth credited investors. We have a list of accredited investors who are just interested in a unique asset class, unique real estate asset class, like Timberland, and they'd come into the fund. So really those two groups were beginning to speak with family offices. Family offices are a little bit of a different animal, right? They don't. Sometimes their structures are a little bit. You have to fall into their timing in order to get things done. So we keep in touch with a handful of them and we'll probably see some family offices come into the fund at some point here soon. But Dave and accredited investors are really our best clients.

Ed Mathews:

Excellent, excellent, all right, all right guys. Our best clients Excellent, excellent, all right, all right guys. So we've been talking. I can I could talk days about the for days about this stuff. I'm fascinated by your business model and congratulations again on a great business that you've built. I'd like to get into our lightning round the final five. We let's work it this way Since we got two guys answering, you guys can decide who answers which question, and and then we'll just go from there. So first question is I really want to know about what gets you out of bed on Monday morning and goes to work. Right, you're already successful, I imagine. The college pay, the college tuitions are paid and the mortgages are paid off and the cars are on free and clear and everything. So it's not necessarily about money. What gets you out of bed and showing up to work on Monday morning?

John Brenard:

I'll take this one and, Terry, you'd probably take this one too. For me, it's just really just succeeding and living to my highest potential. You look at, you look out at a graveyard right and it's filled with people and wasted potential and I just really my intention is not to be one of those people and just get the most out of the hundred years that I've been given. Yeah, that's really my purpose,

Ed Mathews:

All right. Terry?

Terry Myers:

I love going out and meeting new people and in this business it allows me to meet a new person every time I venture out on a piece of real estate and it's always something good that comes out of that. And it might not even be real estate, it's always about hey, most of the time it's like these people are reaching out for help, so at some point in the way it's just hey, give them back and help them out.

Ed Mathews:

Love that. That's great, all right, guys. Obviously, as successful as you both are, you've had help along the way, without a doubt, everybody has, and so I'm curious about your mentors and the advice they gave you. What's the best advice you've ever gotten, and who gave it to you?

John Brenard:

I'll take this one to start, but I'll just I'll take this about Terry. Terry was, before we went into business together, was a mentor to me, right, teaching me about this asset class, right, teaching me how to find deals, allowing me to come in right when I was still building in my career, to contribute what I could to a deal, and that was just very generous of him to allow me to do that. But he says something that sticks with me.

John Brenard:

I think a lot of people you know some people these days they sit around feeling sorry for themselves, right, there's a lot of self-reflection of maybe they're feeling depressed and the number one remedy for that is really just to go get busy, right. And Terry just says a lot more simple than I do, but you just said go out and wash your car. And I think that's just really good advice is, if you're feeling sorry for yourself, right, just go out and get busy and just get started doing something. And I don't have a lot of time for self-reflection building this business right now, but that has been helpful to me at certain periods just to keep busy and keep moving forward when things are a little bit difficult.

John Brenard:

So that's been helpful.

Ed Mathews:

Terry?

Terry Myers:

I'd have to say it would be my dad. My dad was always. Actually I got two. As far as my dad laid core principles down my life and one of them was always do what you say you do and mean what you do and always have no excuses. If you do have some defects or faults, hey, stand up and take face of them. Just learn from that, from your failure. As far as real estate, it would have to be John Dixon. John Dixon was a very mentor, friend of mine, great guy. He's in the Marietta area. He's in the auction business. He took me under his wing probably in 1995, 1996. He was straight from different parts of the world and introduced me to things like King 31, conservation easements. I pretty well have a guy like him. He was just a great mentor in the real estate business. But those two guys right there, and God's people too, so that would be my two men of grace.

John Brenard:

Yeah, and I'd be remiss if I didn't mention my folks too. I have two of the best parents in the world, and I see them as my something to aspire to as well. Just wanted to add that, yeah.

Ed Mathews:

Thank you. I always learn. You learn a lot from your mentors, but you also learn a lot from stubbing your toe, and so I'm curious about a mistake, professional mistake, that you guys have made over the years that you made a decision. You're like boy. I'd like to have that one back and what'd you do to recover?

John Brenard:

Gary? why don't you, why don't you take this one off? Hold on a second.

Terry Myers:

Yeah, I can hold on to that. So a lot of times you're talking and you're trying to trade on a piece of property and you don't be as aggressive. Sometimes you think you need to be and sometimes you don't. I think always the aggression is the better part for me, because if there's something you see is key that worked for you, there's one particular time I kind of grubbed my foot on something not so much pricing, but I didn't feel like I was putting pressure on the people about buying it. Well, I give it about a week after talking with them and come back and say, hey, we just entered in a contract two days ago and I look like and it was for less money than what I offered, but for whatever reason, they didn't take it the deal serious because I wasn't pushing hard enough and that's probably not always accurate. But I would say, hey, stick with it. Do you do? Hey, you either get it or they say, hey, we just don't want to fail it.

Ed Mathews:

Dog on a bone

Terry Myers:

Yeah.

John Brenard:

Yeah, for me it's really just early in my career is just spreading myself too thin on too many, too many ideas and too many side projects, and that was kind of my side hustle. Could compete with a guy who is all in on the thing that I'm calling my side hustle, then a guy's going to beat you every time if he's all in and I'm all in on Southview, right, because the only thing that I'm working on and 100% focused on this and you just look back at the most successful entrepreneurs in history right, I mean, they really did one. At the most successful entrepreneurs in history right, I mean, they really did one thing very well. There are exceptions, right, there are people who have multiple businesses, but more often than not, they typically do one thing really well. Right, Rockefeller did oil, like Carnegie did steel, and I'd say Terry and I are working on Timberland, yeah, all right.

Ed Mathews:

You're the next. You're the JP Morgan and Rockefeller of Timberland. I love it.

John Brenard:

Hey, we'll take it

Ed Mathews:

You said typically when you get to your level and how you get to your level is through continuous learning right, and so I'm curious about how you consume information, whether that's through books or audio books or podcasts or whatever, and who you paid attention to these days. Who's helping you out?

John Brenard:

Podcast is one. There's a couple of podcasts I listen to. One's called Real Estate Underground with Ed Mathews, but yeah, also Founders Podcast is a great one. They're typically less than an hour. Just gives you a great background on some of the most successful entrepreneurs in history, and not just current entrepreneurs. The lessons that are learned in history are still relevant today and they do a great job with that one. But I'm also just paying attention to these days, this early innings that were in alternative investments and private markets, because that's really where our strategy sits, about how RIAs family offices accredited across the spectrum are looking for these alternative investments, and so that's a theme that I'm just paying attention to because there's just a lot of tailwinds for strategies like ours to benefit from that. Yeah, it's something I'm paying attention to these days.

Ed Mathews:

Excellent. How about you, Terry?

Terry Myers:

Pretty much I've stayed in the same pattern that I've been in because it's been working for me, but also along the way I just noticed the young comers that come along.

Terry Myers:

It's got different ideas, especially with social media, how they project sales from timber to land sales to even just acquiring different methods also. And then, most importantly, I listen to the elder, the head of me, sticking with hey, you need to stick with the same roots. So I mix it up between the young and the old. I'm right in the middle of the road, so that's how I stay real close to, as far as the meal, the demand for wood. We just had a big hurricane come through here and, hey, lumber price is pretty good right now but I'm sure the demand for lumber will be real big. And even in California, with the fire, this Georgia Southern Pine that we grow, the Yellowleaf Pine, it's the strongest timber breed. They're winning all the codes now, especially in Florida. So I just try to take on what's going on in the industry and go into different places with the Forestry, the Georgia Forestry Association.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah, right on that's yeah. Yeah, it's interesting, it's it was something that we should certainly talk about, maybe on another show is how the changing weather patterns are affecting your business good, or to the positive, or as a negative, but we can talk about that another time because I'd love to have you back on the show. So let's talk about success. How do you guys define success in your own lives?

John Brenard:

You go ahead, Terry. Yeah, go ahead.

Terry Myers:

I've defined it as number one. You're successful Number one with your community, your family and your business and just in the whole general area, trying to keep that whole thing balanced out all the way around, which is very difficult. I've been so dedicated to this business for so long Sometimes you may slip over here I've got a son that he's coming back into the business. He went out and been working for a major company now for eight years, so easing him back into the business. So that's, I think, being successful through your kids and raising them to do right and just appreciate what we do have in this country and what it's built for, what it's meant for, what it meant for. I think that's a true meaning to success for me and for me.

John Brenard:

Success to me is freedom, and really that doesn't mean not working hard or playing golf every day, because that sounds really boring to me. It's really just having the foundation to say no to things. Early in my career you have to say yes to everything, right. You go to every meeting, you meet with every client, every prospect right. And I've just gained perspective through that. Not everyone or every opportunity is the right fit, and that's okay. It takes time to get to that point. Right, you have to do those things for the first, whatever that timeframe is, the first really decade plus of your career. But to reach that stage now where I can just be a lot more selective and that's come with some success.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah, learning to say no is a valuable skill. Agreed A lot, as a mentor of mine used to say that sometimes the deal you don't do is just as important as the deal you get. Hey guys, I've really enjoyed this conversation. I'm curious about your non-real estate lives. So when you're not talking about real estate, what else do you like to do for fun?

John Brenard:

Yeah, so many things for me really enjoy fishing, skeet shooting, acoustic guitar playing some pool, staying in shape, doing some traveling motorcycle trips. I'm really never bored. I got a lot of different things I'm interested in, but I'm with friends and family. There's a drill down on those things but I stay pretty busy. I stay pretty busy with South T. That's most of my time, but when I do have an hour here or there I like to do one of those things.

Ed Mathews:

Right on.

Ed Mathews:

How about you, Terry?

Terry Myers:

For me it's muscle cars. It's the 60s and late 60s and early 70s muscle cars, the Chevelles and this I love to play with those, collect those. That's me pretty much it's an antique car.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah, I'm a Ford guy myself. My uncle restores Shelbys and my first car was a 65 Fastback Mustang and I regret every day that I sold that but way in, I was 18 and stupid. So, guys, I've really enjoyed this conversation. I think you, like I said earlier, I think you've built a whopper of a business and congratulations on that. If people want to learn more about you, or Southview Timberland. What's the best way to get in touch?

John Brenard:

Best way is to go to our website and it's easy southviewtimber. com right, you can go there. There's a contact us form and you can just submit through the contact us form to meet with somebody from our team. You can also just feel free to email me directly. It's just John J-O-H-N at Southview Timber dot com and we look forward to meeting with any of your listeners and educating them more about the asset class and seeing if there's a fit for us to work together.

Ed Mathews:

Fantastic Well congratulations and continued good success. John Brenard and Terry Myers, thank you for joining us today. It was really a pleasure to have a conversation with you.

Terry Myers:

Thank you for having us.

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