Real Estate Underground

From Contractor to Mogul: Joao Macavilca's Real-Estate Adventure

• Ed Mathews • Season 4 • Episode 178

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Joao Macavilca:

I just think freedom is the biggest thing to control your time. Do what you want, when you want, and it not be detrimental to your finances

Ed Mathews:

So the big question is this, how do real estate investors who don't have a ton of free time, don't have access to off market deals and didn't start life on third base? How do we conservatively grow our real estate business to support our families? Finally, leave the corporate rat race and build a legacy? That is the question in this podcast will give you the answers. I'm Ed Matthews and this is Real Estate Underground. Greetings and salutations Real estate Undergrounders. It is Ed Mathews with the Real Estate Underground. Thank you so much for joining us today. I'm really excited about this conversation'cause this gentleman is, we are cut from the similar cloth. And Joao Macavilca, thank you so much for joining us. I hope I didn't butcher your name, my friend, but, thank you so much for joining us today and it's really good to see you.

Joao Macavilca:

Thanks man. No, that was perfect. Pretty rare trouble to say my name correctly the first time, so that's awesome. Glad to be here. Happy to help. looking forward to this.

Ed Mathews:

Cool. For those folks that haven't discovered you, why don't you tell us a little bit about, STF construction and then we can talk about your capital business as well. Gotcha.

Joao Macavilca:

My name is Joao Macavilca, like you said, I am a commercial general contractor. I have my company SCF Construction. Which I started after I started getting into real estate, things like that, and just started learning and growing from there. Started with little cosmetic flips, getting to bigger and better things, getting my own in-house crew, getting subs, getting things like that. But also understanding what goes behind each one of these phases and grasping that before expanding more and just doing work whenever I can, whether it be for my jobs or other investors, and just. more expansion.

Ed Mathews:

Excellent. And not only have you done, nearly a couple hundred renovations on your own, you also have built a, sizable portfolio of, Buy and hold. Property. Yes. Correct. Yes.

Joao Macavilca:

Yeah. Currently have 92 doors, I believe, or is it 93? I'm not sure. It's just funny how, as you keep doing this, how the deals come to you and how easier it gets as time progresses.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah. I think part of it is that, you build a reputation as a person easy to do business with and can close, right? and these days people who can close aren't. tons and tons of those people out there, right? and also I think the fact that, people, gravitate towards success. Yeah, that's fair. I like that. so how did you get into real estate? The draw for you?

Joao Macavilca:

So like a lot of people, I had a regular nine to five job, and just busted my ass and did what I could to move up and then decided, hey, if I work extra hard, extra hours, went the extra mile, eventually I'll move up the corporate ladder if you would. And I did. I started moving up the ladder, getting promotions and getting higher titles and things like that. but even with that, even with the higher titles, even with more money, more raises coming. It still wasn't enough to live a life that I enjoyed. It wasn't enough to, buy a nice car, go on vacations, lavishly, have nice things. It was always a little over just, my standard bills, my rent, my car, my insurance, food. Get to go out to eat once in a while, maybe do a vacation or two a year. Yeah. Just myself really, or one more person. And it was Never enough to live the life I wanted, I dreamed of, and I just needed to make a difference. do something. And it just, led me down the rabbit hole of how do you make money? How do you grow, how do you build? And real estate was one of the ones that stuck out the most because it made a lot of sense. I did stocks and crypto and some successful, some not. Real estate was something I can feel I can touch. I know the address of one of my properties. I know where it's at. I know what's coming to that area. And as you learn and grow, you know where to buy and why to buy, right?

Ed Mathews:

There's something about being able to hop in your car or your truck and go out and directly affect the value of a piece of property as opposed to, buying a stock and hoping the CEO and the executive suite know what they're doing. Exactly. Or crypto, which don't get me started'cause I have no clue how that's value. But other than it goes up sometimes and it comes down sometimes and no one can give me explanation as to why. Other than Demand. Okay. so we put our money elsewhere. so offline you can explain to me, correct. You can take a shot at explaining crypto to me.'cause I've yet to meet somebody that can do it. so in terms of your growth, right? And, you started, so construction was where you started or were you flipping houses first? Or like where, what was like first deal?

Joao Macavilca:

So pretty much growing up in New Jersey originally my dad didn't want to pay anyone to do anything, so he bought those Home Depot 1, 2, 3 books, made me learn that kind of stuff. And then when he did have to pay someone else because I couldn't do it or he didn't know how to do it, he made me work with them side by side, so I would learn how to do it so he wouldn't have to pay them going forward.

Ed Mathews:

Yep.

Joao Macavilca:

so that's how it started. And I realized staying in the same box that I was always in, in Jersey, working my way up, the corporate ladder. It was safe. So I was always gonna find a reason not to do something or not take that chance. So I made the decision to, move somewhere away from Jersey, which ended up being the Carolinas. It was between North, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida. So places that were growing in the next few years, and that wasn't anywhere near New Jersey. So I made that decision and decided either I'm gonna make it down there, or I'm going to come back home and be exactly where I was. Yep. So need to take that chance and see what happened. I may fall, I may, make mistakes, but I'm gonna get up. I'm gonna learn from each one and keep going.

Ed Mathews:

It's actually a quality of most successful entrepreneurs, right? Is that dogged, stubbornness. It doesn't go your way. That's okay. The plan's good. We're gonna keep working it. Exactly. Make a couple adjustments. Learn from your mistakes, but general direction's the same. you build the construction company, that becomes a resounding success. you begin to, take on your own projects. How did you move from doing that to multifamily? What was the impetus?

Joao Macavilca:

You grow and learn as you go. And, buying my first duplex was, a huge shift in my mind.'cause now I stopped recording with somebody or doing it with somebody else. It's mine. And then the next one comes, which is a whole different layout, whole different floor plan. Then the next house that comes available, it's a different subdivision, complete schematics, different hvac, different electric, different water. Everything is different. So I just kept, always having to adapt every single one. And it's different spayed by a different builder, different gear, different HOAs, however you want, call'em. And then the first I went to an event. It was Mike Leys mastermind in Ohio. And he's brilliant. Oh my God. He's the one, he helped me get my commercial deals, like his training and his networking went to his event and one of my buddies was presenting in construction there, and he can talk amazingly, but I had the spreadsheets and the PDFs and all that, so he asked me to help'em out. I did. I went there, gave my spew and met people there. I started learning. If you buy a 12 unit apartment complex, for example, like we did, it's all the same. You do one or two, everything's the same. From there, copy and paste. Yep. Same amount of paint, same amount of flooring, same amount, toilets, same paint scheme, same everything. So it was just, so much easier than the houses I'm doing that are 2000 square feet plus that could have framing issues, window issues, whatnot. It may take a little longer to do because of the volume. But the return is drastically so much more commercial wise. And now you have the buying power too. Now I can go to Home Depot and set up once every week or twice a week. I'm going there, saying I'm gonna be ordering for 12 apartments. Here's what I need. And the volume discounts and the relationships you build. Are so much more than residential.

Ed Mathews:

Absolutely. Yeah. And it's, like you were saying, the economies of scale are fantastic. so in terms of like materials and all that, you mentioned volume discounts. How are you managing,'cause I imagine, you also said something about, having your own team now, and so how are you managing the properties? do you do that yourself or do you outsource that?

Joao Macavilca:

So depending on the size, one biggest thing I've noticed a lot is when I first started, I was not the best property manager at all. So then I hired a property manager who was, standard rate. They've been doing it for years. But as you grow, it's okay, I know I did something wrong. Do I want to just put it behind me and go, or should I learn more into it? So I'm leaned back and forth and now I'm back to the point where, it's not as difficult as I've seen. It's just something I don't wanna do. So there was a book I read called Who the How, and it tells you to find the purse and everything. And that's what I started doing. I was like, all right, product management is a big factor. It's not something I wanna do at all. I don't wanna take those calls. I don't wanna screen, but somebody else may be better at that than I am. And I found people did that. So now we're bringing that in-house as well. And that's gonna be a game changer.'cause I'm not paying 10% to a property manager. I'm not doing that stuff. So I think it's important for all investors, even if you don't want to do it construction, you may not want to change a floor joce. You may not wanna install LVP flooring. But you've gotta understand what it takes to do that. You gotta know how hard it is, what the issues may be, and at least understand that before subbing it out or giving it somebody else because now you have knowledge into doing it.

Ed Mathews:

so talk me through the systems and the processes, right?'cause obviously you're one guy and there's only 24 hours in the day and you require sleep, and I'm sure you like to go out and have fun so I'm sure you're not working 18 hours a day, right? I hope you're not. and so how do you get your team to run the way you want them to run?

Joao Macavilca:

the good thing there is I have my in-house construction crew as well. I've got a foreman in North Carolina. I've got a foreman in South Carolina, and sometimes I'll interchange'em depending on the project. So the good thing is they've been with me for multiple years and that's something that's also hard to find in construction. Like you'll hear the biggest headache for a lot of investors is the contract didn't show up. This is happening, this is going wrong, and it can really make or break a deal. So I'm very grateful that my guys have been with me for many years. I did recently change like my sheet rocker. I found a great one for the last seven, eight months. He's awesome. Really good down to earth and added to the team, so we're good there. But pretty much the process is similar, like I'll go walk it, the property kind of a, I use an app called Cubicasa, C-U-B-I-C-A-S-A. Okay. And it just, you walk around the whole house, the apartment, whatever you wanna do, and it scans everything for you. It scans it, and then that way I have an idea and then I suit it over to myself. It takes about 24 hours for the free version. To make a floor plan and then I take my pictures, my videos, because I may have ideas while I'm walking it, but a day or a week later I may forget little things. So take pictures and videos. Yep. Make sure you get the idea of what you want to do. And before you start anything on any project, it doesn't matter if some apartment or a house, you gotta run the cops. Yep. You don't wanna put quartz countertop in an area that's up and coming and doesn't need that. Yep. You don't wanna put stainless steel appliance in that you wanna make sure you're following the comps. You're doing it that way, otherwise you can overpay for something and now you're over leveraged. Yep. So find what's going on, find what's growing, follow those comms. Do it that way. And I like doing one color for all my units, so whatever color the ceiling is, same as the baseboard of the doors and the walls. That way when there's a turnover, do it again and do it that way easier versus losing two, three days on covering this. it's a rental. It's not a personal home, it's not an Airbnb. They need that special touch. We just need to make sure it's good quality and get it rented out.

Ed Mathews:

Clean and safe.

Joao Macavilca:

Everyone has their orders. Like my property manager, the in-house now, simple as it was probably a good week of just headaches of, Hey, I do this. Now it's flowing. Now I'm just getting emails and texts of, we've got three more leads today. We've got two more people that wanna see it and great, good to hear. I don't want to, respond to those, but lemme know how it goes. So now I don't have to worry about that. It's more money coming into the business and overall easier.

Ed Mathews:

Operational leverage is a huge win when you figure out'cause letting go is hard. Oh yeah. So how did you get over that hump? Because I, having experienced that myself, I'm a fellow control freak. How did you let go?

Joao Macavilca:

That's one of the hardest things, man.'Cause when you start as an entrepreneur or working for yourself, it's, you are everything. You're the admin, you're the secretary, you're the manager, you're the foreman, you're everything. You're the property manager. And That helps build who you are and where you need to be. you need to have that in you. But when you gotta let go is when there's too many projects going on and something on my side, one project's being delayed because I'm taking time to answer questions for something else that I shouldn't be or that I don't need to. So it was hard for me to let go of some things because I'm gonna do it the right way. I'm gonna spend extra time. But one thing we gotta realize, and a lot of, who was it? I think it was my foreman told me, he's Hey I don't envy you. I know you've got a lot of stuff, but. Your phone's always ringing. Sometimes you're, you're talking to me and then you're, Brian goes somewhere else. And I was like, yeah, you're right. You guys are lucky because once that clock is 5 36, you're done for the day. My phone can ring till nine, 10 o'clock, and even if it doesn't, my mind can go from, holy crap, we could do this differently during dinner or during a movie after hours and mind's always going so. Yeah. So that book helped a lot. Who not how Find the right person, put'em in the right spot. Yeah. Someone that you can groom and strength the way you need it done. And it just helped me so much where I can now focus on what I need to focus on. And I'm reading another book now, which is amazing. It's a Who's in Your Room? And that has also I'm not done with it, I'm halfway there. But that was, that's.

Ed Mathews:

A

Joao Macavilca:

answering questions.

Ed Mathews:

That's a new one. And we'll put that on the list of books.

Joao Macavilca:

the right person, to help you focus that things you're great at.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah. Because a lot of entrepreneurs make the mistake of thinking, okay, I'm gonna hire Ed, and Ed is gonna be 80% of what I'm capable of doing, which is gonna have to be good enough. Then Ed joins the team and it turns out he's actually better at it than you ever were because he's focused on it for one thing. but also he's been doing this a while. You're the one that interviewed him. You've been able to vet him and make sure that guy knows what he's doing and, the amount of free time and energy that you get back to go do the other things you need to do, which we're gonna talk about next. Worth every penny.

Joao Macavilca:

It's been a game changer. It's more, controlled and easier. Yep. I just kept to hop on a call. If it's an emergency call, I'll take it, sure. But otherwise it's like a, it's a Friday, call it be other Friday. Hey, here's what's going on, here's what we got. Okay, cool. Let's keep moving.

Ed Mathews:

Blood, flood or fire call me. Other than that, send me a text or an email. We're good.

Joao Macavilca:

Exactly.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah. Right on. okay, so in terms of, what you're doing now, now that you're freed up and you're controlling and managing that operation, but you're not swinging a hammer, what's your focus day to day?

Joao Macavilca:

So just looking for more jobs, making sure things are actually fall into place. Like we've got a property coming online. Any day this week. I think we're having issues with the MLS North Carolina specific. You need floral plans you need. So that was something I was not aware of. So we're getting that situated. we're working on a huge commercial deal coming up soon, so speaking with the county inspectors, making sure you're on the good side and just finding out what the issues were before, what their expectations are going forward, and just make sure you're doing it the right way. Right on. So just, doing things that I like to do and I'm good at versus trying to do a little bit of everything.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah. And it's, I think it's not only is it whether you're good at it or not, but also do you have the time and energy, right? Because even if you're good at it, but you only have time to do, a certain level of job in terms of standards, that's gonna be restricting as well. So in terms of where you're taking the business, what's, what does, five, 10 years down the road look like?

Joao Macavilca:

five, 10 years down the road? I wanna say not as busy, but that the last few years and every time say it's kinda like a jinx it where can't get busier than now something else. Bigger hits, bigger opportunities, more stuff. so I'm hoping it's more. Relaxed and just on autopilot, and I can just take calls and hop on meetings here and there and just be able to enjoy more. And I'm very grateful for what I have today and what I've been able to do. So just less involved and more oversight is where I want to go.

Ed Mathews:

I love it. So a business owner instead of an operator, right? Yeah. There you go. It's Kiyosaki 1 0 1 man.

Joao Macavilca:

There you go. That's the whole goal.

Ed Mathews:

Alright, cool. okay, so let's move to the final five. I'm always interested in leaders like you, and folks that are in your business, in your position. You get up on Monday morning, the mortgage is paid for. Car payments are really, they're either non-existent or they're handled. You've got all the things you're supposed, you're doing as a person in your family, so your family's taken care of. and nevertheless, you get up and you go to work, right? So that tells me it's not about money anymore, it's about something else. I call it purpose. So what. What gets you outta bed on Monday morning? What's your purpose?

Joao Macavilca:

So it gets me outta bed Monday morning. It's pretty much just the life I've been able to create, the experience I've been able to have, working that nine to five. Being in real estate is a whole different ballgame, so I don't get that standard, 40 hour week paycheck anymore. The more the better property I buy or the more I put into it, the bigger return I get. Not only do I get that refi check at the end or something, but I get monthly rentals, income. Yep. I get appreciation. I can write off in tax wise, I get appreciation on the property over the years I've been able to go to, Thailand, Columbia, what else did we go? I can't remember. Europe, Greece, Italy, Rome. I've able to take my family with me. So these are things that was not possible without real estate being involved. And yeah, be able to grow things and be able to do things like that. Like I, I wanna keep having that lifestyle provide for my family, make sure we're all okay, and break that gap that we had as, just standard nine to fives.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah. Right on. it's amazing how your perspective changes when you're able to do those things,

Joao Macavilca:

Yeah.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah.

Joao Macavilca:

I can get a brand new iPhone. But that experience, going to Thailand and, going to a like elephant sanctuary with my family. You never mimic that again or take that away.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah. But the iPhone, you're gonna replace in two or three, a couple years. Exactly. but being able to take your family to Thailand is amazing for you and for them. That's awesome. Alright I'm also interested in how, growth, right? So when you're coming up, you mentioned Mike Eley, I'm sure you've had other mentors as well. I'm curious about the best advice you ever got and who was the person who gave it to you?

Joao Macavilca:

Best advice ever got. I would have to say. It was from Nate Barger, who's one of Mike's partners. His background is construction. he just told me, if you really want it, you're gonna find a way to get it. Like you can do it. But when I first met him, I had 2, 4, 6 properties and Ran into him in the hall and he took the time to talk to me and asked me, what does he wanna do? I told him I wanted, be like you, I wanna have a lot of properties, I wanna grow and everything. And he just flat out asked me, what's stopping you? Oh I've gotta do this project. And he is no, like you're making excuses, like what's stopping you? And I was like, oh it's hard to find him And he's I'll pull up the phone right now. I'll find you five or six deals. You can do it. You're just making excuses because you're comfortable. It's not as much like you gotta get uncomfortable. You have to go get it. You really want it. Go get it. It really hit me. And$90 later it worked. I'm about to do another big deal. Hopefully I can announce it in the next two weeks or so. it's just gonna be a game changer. It's something you know, you want for, and, we all pray for things and want things, but we gotta remember those times where we had nothing or a little bit, and we asked for the opportunity we have in front of us now. That's why, you have been talking my other buddies who are entrepreneurs. It's busy. It's crazy. Yeah. There was a time when we first started and we had almost nothing and we prayed for this kind of busyness. So we gotta see advantage of that and do something with it. So I would put a lot of what I have to Nate Barger and what he's done for me.

Ed Mathews:

Awesome. You're running around, working hard, working long hours, and, you probably make 20 decisions a day without a doubt, we learn way more from our mistakes than we do from our successes. So I'm curious about a decision that you made, along the way that you look back on now and go, man, I wish I had that one back. And what did you do about it?

Joao Macavilca:

So decision I made, I wish, go back. Just a few of them. A lot of them go with under budgeting of assuming, yeah, it's gonna cost me 50,000 to renovate this property with a 10,000 extra just for buffer. So 60. And then something comes up that, you break this wall, you find this out, or something else goes wrong. I've increased that recently to 25%. Worst case, I use it. I'm still within budget, doesn't affect the plan. Best case I don't use it, and now I'm under budget and there's more return for the profit. but another big mistake would be not starting sooner, like waiting for the right time. Yep. Just being nervous and oh, I'll wait. I don't need another one this year. And, then unfortunately checking back a year or two later, what is it worth today? I'm like, ah, could have got that one. But just not starting so, and then not preparing for, the what ifs.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah. I'll tell you, I read Kiyosaki, rich Dad, poor Dad in 2008. A buddy of mine gave it to me and fundamentally changed my life. it took me three years to pull the trigger, right? Because same thing, I was afraid I didn't wanna make mistakes. I didn't want to blow what little capital I had, all the reasons. I was really good at making excuses. I tell the story about a broker who basically, I'm a foot taller than her, but scared hell outta me. and I'm pretty sure she threatened my life if I didn't sign the contract. and I did. And, it worked out really well. Good. That's awesome, man. Sounds like Nate, your conversation with Nate was a little more, encouraging. Mine was terrifying. But, that's all good.

Joao Macavilca:

Just called me out on all the bullshit.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah, exactly. that's it. so I'm curious about, you mentioned Mike and I know his course, He, he's incredibly generous with, he and Nate, and the rest of those guys are incredibly generous with what they do. Actually, he just wrote a book that I'm in the middle of. I just got it. I almost said I'm in the middle of reading. I'm not, it's actually sitting right here and, I can't wait to read it. It is on my list of books next. So if you haven't read it, or if you have read it, don't tell me how it ends. All right. But I'm curious about the books or, how you take in information. are you an audio book guy, a hardcover book guy? do podcasts or YouTube, like, how do you get smarter in doing what you do? And it's a little bit, who are you paying attention to is the other question?

Joao Macavilca:

it's a little bit of everything. Pretty much. when I first started I was just, reading a book because I can. I can sit down. TV doesn't have be on, I had to focus on the book. So I gave my a hundred percent focus on the book. And like you said, it was risk, poor. That was my first one. I was given to me by my accountant who said, Hey, you need to, learn more about finances. So it gave me the book and the second time I read it is when it clicked for me. And that was about a year later. So that's when it all clicked and started making sense to me. so I read, I like to read books, however, I got one project that's two hours away. I've got another one that's an hour and a half the other way. And, at that time I can't read. So I do audio books and I try to make sure it's, books that I wanna read or that I already have on the shelf so I can revisit it or see a different way. and podcasts as well, if I don't wanna listen to books every single day, so maybe I need a break here and there, just, I may not be talking to somebody, but it's people sitting and having a conversation about something you can relate to BiggerPockets has good podcasts. Yep. but I like the audio books the most because I can pause it, go back, see it, and then just, see what else is recommended. And that's how I found the, who's in your room? It's just by all the books, all the real estate books. I've got business books. That's one that was popped up. And I was like, let me Google it and read a little bit about the reviews and what it entails,

Ed Mathews:

Good. I'm, like I said, it just made my list. I'll be sure to get on it. and I'm an audio guy too, so I'm encouraged that it sounds like that one's on Audible, so thank God. Yeah. cool. so at the end of the day, one of the things That I think a lot of people think about is the concept of enough. And so I'm curious, a lot of people define that as success, and so I'm curious, how do you define success in your life today, and what do you think that looks like down the road?

Joao Macavilca:

So success for me is basically defined by freedom. if I want to go to Mexico tomorrow, I'm going tomorrow. I can do what I want when I want. I don't have to put in a PTO request, right? And pray that John isn't off the same week or that it's a inventory week or whatever the case is. I'm not needed to be somewhere immediately where I can choose. You know what? It's been a crazy week. It's Wednesday. It's going, take a trip down here real quick and do what I want. I have to worry about that. So I got my phone with me, my laptop. I can go where I want and visit where I want. And I just think freedom is the biggest thing to control your time. Do what you want, when you want, and it not be detrimental to your finances where, okay, this is my last 3000, we're gonna go to Mexico and have a ball. Now it's Hey, I don't need to check this account. I don't need to save. I can just go and experience the world and live my life and not be controlled by, clocking in or clocking out. Awesome.

Ed Mathews:

Yeah. Time freedom is a beautiful thing. Joao when you, are not thinking about real estate, although I suspect that's a lot of your day, what do you like to do for fun other than travel?

Joao Macavilca:

travel to fun. Barbecue. I like to test new recipes out. just recently, maybe two months ago, found out about cowboy butter and it is my go-to so far. So I like to barbecue, I like to fish. I like to go on the boat and just relax and yeah. have fun on the lake and I like to work out, get a lot of stress out and things like that. And just enjoy life. We all need money. we all need things to keep moving, we've also got limited time. So we wanna make sure you're enjoying it.

Ed Mathews:

It's wise. Yeah. You only get so many summers, right? so how can people learn about you or, your construction business or your capital business? What's the best way to get in touch?

Joao Macavilca:

probably Instagram or Facebook. Facebook is my first name and last name. Instagram is,@Joaomac_stf. Just shoot a dm, reach out, schedule a call, whatever you wanna do. If I got projects ongoing and someone's local that wants to come visit, schedule a day and walk through it and ask every question you've got.

Ed Mathews:

Awesome. If, like I said before we started recording, I got family down there. So next time I'm down in the Carolinas, you can expect a DM from me, although I have your cell phone, so I'll just call you. really nice to meet you. Congratulations on all your success and continued good fortune.

Joao Macavilca:

Thank you man.

Ed Mathews:

Appreciate the time.

Joao Macavilca:

Yep, me too.

Ed Mathews:

This has been the Real Estate Underground. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe. It helps us grow. Until next time, under grounders, remember, your real estate journey begins with a simple step forward. Now get to it. Bye for now.

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