Real Estate Underground

Real Estate Hustle vs. Real Estate Business with JB Thibodeaux

• Ed Mathews • Season 5 • Episode 196

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JB Thibodeaux grew up in Acres Homes in Houston and is a third-generation carpenter and concrete specialist who turned that craft into a vertically-integrated real estate development business. His firms, J.B. Thibodeaux Homes & Properties, CCB Construction LLC, and CCB General Contractors LLC, have led over $100 million in projects across mass development, pocket development, and affordable housing infill. This year, the Houston market crowned him the "Duplex King."

In this episode, Ed and JB unpack a contrarian lesson the real estate education industry rarely teaches: the difference between the real estate hustle and the real estate business. Hustle gets you doors. Business gets you a sustainable enterprise. Most operators only ever learn the first one.

JB walks through the Houston duplex pricing math that vindicated his long conviction on the market, from "praying to get $350" on a 2,500 square foot duplex to selling at $479, almost $500,000. He explains his concept-to-keys pocket-development model, Houston's no-zoning-but-deed-restrictions quirk, the 60/40 build-to-sell vs. build-to-hold split for his client base, and why vertical integration (owning the GC) is a margin lever most flippers underestimate.

In this episode:

  • Pocket development inside a major metro: the framework
  • The duplex math that vindicated a Houston long-hold
  • Houston's "no zoning" reality: where the leverage actually lives
  • Why "the gurus teach you doors, not business"
  • House hacking as the duplex exit strategy
  • Generational construction knowledge as competitive moat
  • Mayor Sylvester Turner naming February 20 "James 'JB' Thibodeaux Day" (2019)

If you're a flipper, wholesaler, or operator trying to build a business and not just a deal pipeline, this is the episode.

This week's book: The Miracle Morning by Hal Elrod

Guest: JB Thibodeaux, Founder & Managing Partner, J.B. Thibodeaux Homes & Properties

Website: jbthibodeaux.com

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/james-thibodeaux-8a98b51b7

Instagram: @jbthibodeauxhomes

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Additional Resources:

Social Media:

  • LinkedIn -> Ed Mathews (President at Clark St and Elevista)

Heads up: If you find this week's book intriguing and you buy using our link, we receive a small commission that helps support the show. Thank you!

Cold open: "Gurus teach you doors, not business"

JB Thibodeaux

But what we found is that there are guys that, or these gurus that will teach you how to build, or how to get doors, but they don't teach you how to create a business.

Ed Mathews

If you're within three feet of me, we're probably talking about real estate, much to my family's chagrin. But here's the thing, most people see 7% rates and freeze. I see opportunity. They're waiting for the perfect deal, and well, I've analyzed thousands of them, and perfect just doesn't exist. So I talk to operators

Welcome to Real Estate Underground

Ed Mathews

across every asset class, flippers, multifamily syndicators, note investors, and whatever else is working. No sales pitches allowed, just real lessons from people actually doing it. I'm Ed Mathews, and this is Real Estate Underground. Greetings and salutations, real estate undergrounders. It is Ed Mathews with the Real Estate Underground. Thank you so much for joining us today. We're, I'm grateful that you're making us a small part of your day. Keep those

Guest intro: JB Thibodeaux, Houston builder

Ed Mathews

comments coming because, obviously that gives us guidance on the topics that we talk about. I'm grateful for all of the texts and all of the comments that you guys leave for me. I read every single one of them, so keep them coming. So with that, I'm really excited to introduce our guest today, JB Thibodeaux from JB Thibodeaux Homes and Properties. He comes from a part of the world that I am really in love with. Although I'm gonna mispronounce it, I'm gonna say New Orleans. I think it's pronounced New Orleans. Yeah. But I live north of the Mason-Dixon line, so you'll have to give me a little bit of grace. No problem. No problem. But nev- nevertheless, JB welcome to the show. It's really good to have you on, my friend.

JB Thibodeaux

Hey, man. Thanks for having me, Ed. I definitely appreciate being here and having this opportunity with you, so yes,

Ed Mathews

sir. Yeah. All right. Hey for those folks who haven't discovered you on LinkedIn or any other of the socials why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do for a living?

JB Thibodeaux

Hey, man. I'm JB Thibodeaux with JB Thibodeaux Homes and Properties. I'm a residential home builder here in the Houston, Texas area.

Third-generation tradesman + Duplex King of Houston

JB Thibodeaux

I started off in this game as a third-generational carpenter and concrete specialist. So I pride myself as being a true tradesman who has a passion as you can see, of being on the sites every single day. But we do anywhere from mass development to pocket development to just some very infield development that can range from affordable housing to multifamily. And And we do, we sprinkle in a few custom homes here and there and things like that in our portfolio. It's vast, and just this year I guess they crowned me as the duplex king here in Houston, Texas 'cause, Congratulations we just do a, quite a bit of those duplexes here. It's

Ed Mathews

good to be the king, man.

JB Thibodeaux

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So that's a bit a blessing, but they said it, not me.

Ed Mathews

Right.

JB Thibodeaux

Yes,

Ed Mathews

sir. So y- yeah, definitely, at some point you gotta believe your press clippings, right? I,

JB Thibodeaux

I receive.

Ed Mathews

Yes, sir. Cool. All right, cool. So congratulations on the business that you've created. And y- in terms of where you're focused I hear you saying, you're a developer. You build duplexes, multifamily. Talk to me about your bread and butter.

Concept-to-keys: pocket development model

Ed Mathews

What, And obviously you're the king of duplexes, so I assume- Yes that's the path we're going down.

JB Thibodeaux

Man, our client, our g- the... That's a great question. I our bread and butter is just really a, I like to... I coined this term of pocket development. Yeah. Doing, taking the philosophy of mass development, bring it within the municipality, still using that, that framework of doing infield development, but subdividing the lots to cre- to create more structure. And so every client that comes to us have a dis- a different strategy, and we pride ourself of being the concept to keys guys. So everything that you would need, if you just have a concept in mind, we have it all under our bro umbrella from pre-construction to the actual construction to we actually giving you the keys of your development. And so- Brilliant most of our clients come in from all walks of the country and w- different professional backgrounds and things. Yeah. And they wanna get into this game of real estate. And we come up with a strategy so they can maximize the return on their investment.

Ed Mathews

Excellent, excellent. Yeah. Congrats. So- Thanks when you say subdivide, so are- Yeah you building to

Build-to-sell vs. build-to-hold (the 60/40 split)

Ed Mathews

sell those duplexes to families, or are you keeping them for rentals, a mix? Like, how does that work?

JB Thibodeaux

And I wanna say it's a 60/40 range. When we look at our pipeline of our clients in the different strategy, we get a lot of folks from from different states or some Yankees out there, not just from your neck of the woods- I resemble that that come into our area. One of the things that is attractive about Houston we're the largest major metroplex in the whole United States that has no zoning. And so when you have no zoning you c- the sky's the limit when it comes to development. But we do have this tricky thing called deed restrictions, covenants, and easements that kinda limit the type of development you can do. So it's very attractive to out-of-towners to come in this area to do these things we call pocket development. And so- man, we sit them down and we structure a play where some of our clients would to build, to hold, enable rent out. But after we go over the numbers and the cards, so the m- the market kinda dictates the direction their development would go.

Ed Mathews

Okay. So- Yeah so let's talk about

Houston: no zoning, but deed restrictions

Ed Mathews

that market. Yeah. Yeah. We had a gentleman on earlier that was talking about the, Dallas-Fort Worth area. So I'm curious about Houston. No zoning boggles my mind, 'cause that's something I- Yeah. I battle on a daily basis here. Yeah. I'm in Connecticut Yeah.

JB Thibodeaux

Yeah

Ed Mathews

boy, that would make my life so much better.

JB Thibodeaux

Hey, man. You think, you would think that, Ed. I, we have no zoning, but this thing called deed restrictions- Education and covenant. A lot of people hear no zoning. Yes, it is true. You can have a liquor store next to a hospital, next to a church, next to a strip club. So those type of things happen. But it does give the communities a lot of power because these deed restrictions and covenants can change. And it, as from a developer's perspective, that means we have to be really keen on where we purchase our properties at, because every community can be different. So you can't take a blanket approach to the whole city of Houston. You really have to hone into the different pocket neighborhoods- and come up with a system for that particular neighborhood. And for one, it, it can be a benefit, but then it can also be a curse. But that's why you need some boots on the ground to make sure this thing work.

Ed Mathews

Yeah, to understand it, how it all fits together, right?

JB Thibodeaux

Yeah. And a lot of times a lot of people will ask why would you go to duplex range and stuff?" So one of the things that happened here lately in the Houston, Texas area, a lot different than Dallas. Houston you have so much space. Houston loves to annex every area, so they the controlling factor. So a little bit- Sure Dallas still have those pocket cities, and each city- does its thing. But in Houston, it's all boils down to Houston and Harris County. And so the growth in our area is just skyrocketing. And so we got under the bar in development. One of the things that has been so attractive here is multifamily development. That's with the duplexes, because it gave a better exit strategy for our developers, because you're catering to the retail house hacker buyer, who would- Yeah stay in one side and rent out other. Yeah. And you would also cater to an investor who will rent out both and just house their money. As far as single-family development, it I don't wanna say stagnant, but our price point where we saw that if we build anything under the 340 range, they will fly off the shelf. Anything over the 340 range, it seemed like we was competing with, those luxury housing or- Sure single family home, and it stayed on the market a little bit longer. So that made all the developers shine into the multifamily space.

Ed Mathews

Yeah, makes sense. So-

JB Thibodeaux

Yeah

Ed Mathews

340 is the the value, right? Is

JB Thibodeaux

what- Yes, sir. 340,000.

Ed Mathews

Yeah. All

JB Thibodeaux

I apologize.

Ed Mathews

Yes, sir. Okay. Yeah. In terms of... it's fascinating. I had a- I've had a couple of people on, but the one that near and dear is Tony Torres. So Tony does a lot of build to rent down in the, I believe, Tennessee area. Tennessee, yeah. And- Nashville. Nashville. And are we talking about developers who are interested in... 'Cause, and the reason I mention Tony and his operation is because they do duplexes. That's a huge- That's right part of their business, right? Yeah. So is that the kind of model that we're talking about or something else?

JB Thibodeaux

Yeah. It's funny because we have a lot of people are getting into our space. Everybody is getting to the space, and now- Sure they're going in. 'Cause, a lot of times people who are- 'Cause the hedge funds wanna buy it. Yeah. Yeah. Told-

Duplex math + the house-hacking exit

JB Thibodeaux

Yeah a lot of people was hinged on the flipping model, where they find existing properties and stuff. The great thing about Houston is that our average size lot on the infield development lot was 6,500 square foot. Ooh. And so now we're, and then now with the influx of people from out of town, from California, from, Chicago, and these different areas, it's created a density thing that we need in these areas. And so now when you get inside our three loops or whatever, now it's the thing about, hey let's utilize these larger properties and subdivide them. And so in the municipality, we would see a lot of these infield, what we call pocket developments, where we would do something like that. Now, when you go where properties that's already been replatted to, from 6,500 10,000 square foot, they already having it, then you replat it again- Yeah you're limited to the amount of properties that you can do in that one pocket development. So- Gotcha what we've been seeing is our midsize developer who was be outside, out in our outskirts, suburban areas, that would do mass development, build to rent communities we've been seeing a lot of those pre-pub. Yeah. But mostly of our kind of midsize developers would do a scatter type of using the custom home model where you would go and get these infield develop-

Ed Mathews

Okay

JB Thibodeaux

but still doing kind of a track and spec home development. You know what I mean? Gotcha. And so- Yep, sure do it'll be anywhere between maybe two properties to, maybe seven or eight, or even some cases 10 or 11.

Ed Mathews

Gotcha. Yeah, no, the attractiveness of at least the build to rent model, is- there's multiple exits at- That's right. That's right you can con- make them condos. You can sell them to one of the residents or, another investor. You can sell off the whole development to- Development, yeah a hedge fund if it's, if it meets their criteria. It's, That's

JB Thibodeaux

right

Ed Mathews

really attractive. It's interesting.

JB Thibodeaux

What I found in this space in the Houston area is because we, here recently the values of our duplexes literally the same duplex that I would be building in one area our value has increased the equity in these properties. Where we were just putting it on the market, building a 2,500 square foot duplex, total square foot duplex and, praying to get 350, those duplexes are going for 479, almost 500,000. That value has made it whereas the philosophy was is, "Listen, let's get these things off the books. Let's... We're in the price where we gotta build to sell." It's a short-term equity play. We do get a lot of clients that'll come in that want to do the whole, but once they see the amount of equity that they getting at this short period of time, they're just, getting it off the books and then putting those cash reserves into other, a mar- Sure major, larger

Ed Mathews

scale projects Get more

JB Thibodeaux

money. Yeah. Makes

Ed Mathews

sense. Makes sense. All right. And a- and so i- in terms of your operation I'm curious- how much of it is building for you, and how much of it is developing for others?

JB Thibodeaux

Me and my wife, we have our own small portfolio that we do, and our goal is to do at least 10 to 15 units a year on our own. And so- that's awesome in the process of us doing that's when we came up with the business model because

Build for yourself vs. develop for clients

JB Thibodeaux

my, my construction background was like, "Hey, we need to develop this system," because we was getting a lot of... Everybody is coming in this space. But what we found is that there are guys that, or these gurus that will teach you how to build, but they don't teach you... Or how to get doors, but they don't teach you how to create a business. You know what I mean? Sure. And so- So true once you find out that it's possible to build, you get boggled down with being the GC. And so I, our motto is fire the G- fire the guru and hire the GC. You know what I mean? I love that. So that you can scale your business and stuff. And so the business model that we created like I told you, from concept to keys, m- majority of our clients will come in, they will use our project management software. They can follow their whole project through our client portal. Yeah. They don't have to be on site. We get... we outline their budgets and everything. We give them hard costs. We give them guarantees. We give them hard dates and deadlines and things like that so they can feel comfortable. But again, we take them from the front end, so we have- the architects, engineers, and everything that they would need, and the plan running to get them through those municipalities to get their project up and running, Yeah and then get through the development process.

Ed Mathews

Yeah. And you know something that you mentioned, and I am- vehemently anti-guru, right? Yeah. For the exact reason- Thank you that you talked about. Yes. A- and that is that, a- and in fact, we're rolling out a something in the future, but I wanna talk about- Yeah your master class here. Yeah. The whole idea of, yes, you can ha- I can hand you a checklist, and you can flip a house, or you can, develop a multifamily or a duplex project or, build take on a multifamily project or whatever. They don't tell you how to run the business, and that is- No, there you go a huge disconnect, gets a lot of people in a lot of trouble. And tell me about your master class and the cohort you have going on right now. I'm fascinated by this.

JB Thibodeaux

Man, God has blessed us. Our goal before going into the 20- 25 year was to complete 44 properties just this year. And man, that, God had blessed us that before we even got to summertime, we was already creeping past, and now we coined 99. We doubled that number, and it's just skyrocketing things. That's awesome. And so now we've already 100 before the end of the year. One of the things that our accountant and our lawyers got together, and we sat down and said we need to do a giveaway." It's almost tax season, and it's something we're gonna have to do. And so I was like, "What better way to do it than giving away a home or whatever?" But after I researched, after the lawyers got involved and things like that, they made it to- Oh, they ruin, they always ruin it, man they ruin it, man. But, they scare you to the Jesus. You'd be like, "Well-" Yes, they do "ain't no use to even doing it," yes, they do. But all the research we found that nobody in the country has given away a duplex. And so we said, "Hey, let's be the first to do it, but let's create something, and we just gonna give away a duplex." And so when I just put that out in the atmosphere next thing you know it you just tell a couple of people, that gets out there, and then a bank gave us a call. So Miss Belinda Everett from Prosperity Bank contacted us and said she wanted to be a part. And she said, "You can't

Anti-guru ethos + the Thibodeaux Foundation

JB Thibodeaux

give away a duplex without giving a foundation of education." And yeah, and so that just... and that blew our mind, and I and that took me to a- Oh, definitely whole nother loop. And I said you're absolutely right." And so we got together, and the great thing about that is that there are traditional ways- To do things in this business, right? But there, y- you as an investor know that there's a lot of workarounds. And so I tell people all the time, it's just like you you get in your car, you type into the GPS, and then it'll give you one or two ways to get to the destination. Multiple routes. Right on. But it's nothing like having somebody in the car with you that can take you through the feeder road, the back streets and everything- when there's real time situations that can help you get to that destination. And so when Ms. Belinda got in bed with us, this master class have just taken a whole nother level. And so we're merging the traditional ways of doing this game of real estate from homeownership to development to being a big landlord fence family landlord. And then we merging the non-traditional investor ways that... I remember when I first started in this business, people were saying, "Oh, that's illegal. You can't do that. Or y- you can't wholesale. Or you- That's not... You can't do this type of contract." From title companies and long-term professionals would tell you that. But- Having it all under one class, we're doing a six-week master class that didn't cost the participants anything. And they have to complete the master class to be a part of the running to do this giveaway that we're doing on October the 18th. And so on October the 18th, we will select one person out of the master class to be the recipient or the blessing person that we would give the duplex away.

Ed Mathews

Wow. That's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. Unbelievably generous, too, on, on- Yes, sir both the educational side as well as obviously the asset is, it's, i- it's incredibly generous. But I'm curious, and we're gonna get into this in a little bit in terms of purpose. But I'm always curious, what made you wanna do this?

JB Thibodeaux

Man, I as I said before, I'm a third-generational carpenter and concrete specialist. I, my family trade has been construction and some form or fashion of construction. I've been around tradesmen all my life. And I've known when I was coming up and growing up, being a tradesman wasn't the most attractive field to the ladies. Or to the youth. Everybody else, being a sports person or being in the streets or being other things other than being a construction guy or a tradesman- Yeah wasn't the most attractive thing. E- that was then, and this is now. Now, being a tradesman is key because we need it more. And so seeing my dad work fortunately and unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity to have a two-parent home at that time. My dad was a single father. My mom passed at an early age. Got you. But my dad took on that responsibility, and just seeing him work in hand d- day in and day out as a tradesman, building. He took my grandfather's trade, is doing concrete flatwork, a lot of driveways foundations and stuff, and then he built on that to build another skill and then did the framing part. But he never had the wherewithal to take it to a business level. And and that was commissioned to me. And he told me as a young man, "Hey, man, you're gonna be in construction." I was like, "No, I'm not. I will not do it." And come to find out, when I, my back was against the wall and other things I tried didn't work out, I end up going to what I knew. And I tell people all the time is that just being exposed, you'll be surprised on how much is caught and not taught. Yep. And it was in me, and it came out. But Ed, I'll be honest with you, that has been one of the most Achilles heel in me growing this business. My construction background has actually delayed my growth If I can- So,

Ed Mathews

so tell me more about that

JB Thibodeaux

yeah to be honest with you, when we came in, when I tell people this story. In 2015 I started my journey. I left the Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America, that's NACA. I was an organizer for them, a housing organizer for them, and I said, "Man I'm gonna go back into real estate. I'm gonna get back into this game of real estate and become an investor." I told my father, "Hey, man it's time out for us just to be working for somebody, and so I'm gonna start flipping houses." I had a buddy of mine that he had a different field, and he just had a lot of money, and he would just come and sit down and have a beer with me on the job site, and just see me working. And then he came to me, he said, "JB," one day, he said, "You know what? I bought some land over here on the other street, and I think I'm gonna build some houses over there." I was like, "Man, you don't know nothing about building." And he was like, "Watch me." So he said, "I've been watching you now." Trust me, I done... i'm doing all the work on this flip house. I'm literally doing the Sheetrock, drywall, the flooring, the cabinets, everything. I'm doing everything on my own, busting my butt, working from sun up to Sunday. He'll call me and say, "Hey, let's go to Saltgrass and have a steak and drink," and things like that. And I'd be like, "Man, I'm working. I'm tired," or whatever else. That guy my friend, built three homes, three single family homes, subbed everything out. He spent a bootload of money. I made more money, but he taught me a lesson. His lifestyle during that process- though he had some strains, though he had some bumps in the road, taught me something like, "Hey, man, I need to do a different route. I need to approach this business in a different way." Yep. A lot of people look at the real estate hustle, but don't look at the real estate business. And so I had to scale my business and get into a mindset of where I had to delegate and trust my teammates. Create a team where I can really grow. You can get so bogged down in one project that it will limit you seeing all of the other opportunities that are out there for you and stuff. And so when I start removing myself, my business start growing rapidly. Yep. I start getting in the ways of guys, even my subs, thinking that they had to do it my way, and that technology has changed and everything else. We still was over there with the come-along doing concrete, so I had my guys with a come-along and then, they came out with the pump truck and stuff. And back in my day, we didn't have that. So we was over there just pulling concrete. And so all this new technology and things, and just something that small just skyrocketed my business. Yeah. Just, hey, letting these guys doing it, subbing out, coming up with a solid price point that, that is competitive in the market, and a system that works. But there was no bigger lesson that I learned, Ed, than that. And then the second lesson is that when we talk about building a team- We never talk about, 'cause we always say build your team, have the best accountant, have the best lawyer, have the best- Yep subs, have the best, mentor. But we never say have the best client. We never talk about the right client. And so that, that has been, in the last two years, the thing that has skyrocketed our business to being able to examine the right client for your business. That is the best teammate that you can have, is examining the right client for you, and being able to tell somebody who puts a bunch of money on your table that you may not be the person for me, and turning down that money or that job or that opportunity for better opportunities that work with you.

Ed Mathews

I so agree with you. The, Sometimes the best deal is no deal, right?

JB Thibodeaux

It's no deal. It's no deal. And when I learned how to say no

Sometimes the best deal is no deal

JB Thibodeaux

to certain clients, because we're in the business, man. Real estate is really the ultimate relationship business. Yes. And you can do everything right, and something could come up wrong. Guaranteed. And and so you need those relationships where people are not focused on the whammies, but focused on the s- the solutions, and your business will grow. And I think that we're so caught up on looking for red flags in all ways that we can say, "Oh, I told you oh, I knew it," that s- Yeah versus, "Hey, let's get over this hurdle. Let's get over this challenge." Work the problem, right? And let's get to the finish line." Yeah. Right on. You know what I mean? And so those are the things, man, that, that has helped me.

Ed Mathews

Yeah. Awesome. It's it's so refreshing to hear your perspective, 'cause m- a lot of the folks I work with, they look at these deals like, all the world's, that they're one big honking hammer and all the world's a nail, right? They wanna hit every nail. Yeah. And I'm like, you can't be everything to everybody, right? You gotta pick your spots. Yeah. A, because you've gotta create operational leverage, like you were talking about, in terms of being able to build a team, trust,

Operational leverage and picking your spots

Ed Mathews

train that team, trust that team to do their job. But also, from an operational leverage perspective, to be able to be okay with them doing it differently, right? The mantra here is I don't need to be right, we just have to get it right. Yeah?

JB Thibodeaux

That's it.

Ed Mathews

And to be able to kinda step back and let your team Execute, grow, thrive, grow again, and learn. Yeah, the- we have a rule here at Clark Street at our, at all of our companies that, you don't get in trouble for mistakes the first time, right? Yeah. No. And 'cause I fundamentally believe, we learn more from not getting it right and then- That's right fixing it, right? Yeah. So- Yeah let's have at it. I

JB Thibodeaux

get a Man, I have a lot of peers who come into this business as we were talking offline, is that everybody wants to get in real estate. Yeah. Everybody wants to be a developer now. Yeah. Everybody wants to be a GC. And there's- a lot of times- They're fortunately a lot of my peers will come in and they were like, "Hey, man can I use your guy?" Or, "Do you got a plumber?" Or, "Do you got this guy?" And at first I would offer everybody, but I tell people, "You can drive on any street and you can find a development site, and it'd be subcontractors, it'd be materials, and it'd be a system." Yeah. What separates the different job sites is the relationship that you have with the guys. Yeah. There is sometimes that I have found my guys to make mistakes and things like that, and I champion not to get on it because you gotta understand, when you're looking at a house, you're looking at a multitude of companies that had came together- Yeah a- and had to work in harmony to get this finished product, yep. Absolutely. Everybody have different walk grounds, backgrounds, situations- Yep personal situations that come together, mom and pop stories and things like that, and you have to meet people where they are. So if you are rigid, coming from a corporate background and thinking that you can come to a job site and everything can be so concrete and timing and everything, you're gonna get a rude awakening in this business. And you are, you're gonna think that you can just throw money at it and it's gonna solve issues and stuff, and none of those things happen better than a relationship. And so I had a concrete guy made a mistake and one of my buddies, I referred him over there to him, and Alfonso came back to me and he was like, "Man your friend never paid me." And I was like what happened?" And he was like he owed me $600." $600. And I called the guy and he was like, "Man, he made a mistake, and he did this and stuff." I said, "Man, the amount of money that you're making over $600," is- it blows my mind. Just leave it. The contact and the relationship that this guy has done for you and all the deals that he did, and so you're gonna hold $600 from that one mistake? He admitted that he made a mistake, but that $600, it impacts him more than it do you from keeping that and that mistake they made. Those are the relationship things that you have to grow through and maybe understand and look at the bigger picture versus that, narrow-mindedness to that different issue. And so those are relationships that we foster and recreate at JB Tibbett Homes and Properties. Yeah.

Ed Mathews

Got it. Got it. All right. That's awesome. Hey, I gotta start landing this plane let's get into the f- the the lightning round, the final five. You strike me as someone who is working beyond his own good, right? And y- for the greater good. So I'm always curious about, when

Lightning round: what is purpose?

Ed Mathews

people like you, who lead very successful companies the financial house is in really good order, right? The mortgage- is handled. The- Car payments, even if they exist, are handled. The kids- Yeah are taken well care of, and yet every Monday morning you get up and go to work, right? And so to me, that's purpose. And so I'm curious about the, what your purpose is. What gives you that, that kind of energy to jump out of bed on Monday morning and head to, head over to the office or the project site?

JB Thibodeaux

I'm gonna be honest with you. As we start growing in this business it is I don't know what your audience would know. It it's not like that every time. As we grow, you have the peaks and you have the valleys and things like that. Sure. And in this business, you have to understand the balancing act of how things go, 'cause there's always another deal around the corner. And there's no better time than the time that we're living in. A lot of the old heads will tell you like, "Oh, it was back in the good old days." Yeah. But there's no better time than the time we're living in. And so every morning I wake up, man, and my family is my biggest driver, and I fight against comfortability. Comfortability, I believe, is a curse, and every time somebody tell me, "Oh man, you're doing great. You did this," and stuff, it's the drive to get to the next level. 'Cause every peak it seemed like when I thought I made it, I didn't make it. There was another side of the mountain that we had to climb, and there's somebody that is doing it bigger and better, and who I was like, "Hey, I wish I knew that back when I first started." And to expand. And so I realized that's why I told you, find these gurus and hire the GCs because there is growth in the business that we're doing, and there's always a better way and a more efficient way to do every project, every system, and every way you do your company and how you build it. So-

Ed Mathews

Right

JB Thibodeaux

on yes, sir.

Ed Mathews

It's clearly you've had a lot of help. Great team. But I'm, I bet you've also had a lot of mentors too. And so I'm curious about the best advice you ever got and who gave it to you.

JB Thibodeaux

My, my dad is my hero. My dad is, i- is my hero. And, everybody can hold him up and throw a bunch of darts at him, but he's been my biggest hero. The best advice that he ever gave to me as a kid, and I tell people all the time, he say, "Blame me for everything that's wrong in your life up until 18." That's on you. "And then after 18, look in the mirror, blame yourself." That's really good

Ed Mathews

advice.

JB Thibodeaux

And and so that advice I live with every day in that I stop taking the blame game from everybody and just take responsibility of what- god has created in me- Yep and the uniqueness that he created me. And that gave us the, that give the con- the accountability back on me that I can make the changes that I need in life to grow. And then I stop taking things so serious and realizing that if I'm able to wake up in the morning, there is another opportunity to go after it again. And that's why I told you that comfortability is one of the most scariest things to me because I know that where I came from, that I can't get no lower than that. So I think sometimes when we have accomplished those things, we're afraid to go to our wife and our children as men and say, "Hey, man maybe that didn't work out." But the more I start getting accountable with myself and being more transparent and say, "Hey, hey, w- we're dropping our balls and going after it, and if it don't work out, hey, but we made that attempt." Now, we have to make some risk ratios. Sure. My wife did a good job in saying we can't put all our eggs in one basket because we have children and we have other things that we have to think of. Sure. But that has been the best thing for me, to be as transparent as possible with my family and let them know what we're doing and we're growing.

Ed Mathews

Awesome. Yeah, it's a tremendous, unbelievably mature and impressive character trait to be able to own it- Yeah. Definitely in everything that you do. I- Yeah I I recently read, it was recommended to me years ago, but I recently read Jocko Willis' book Extreme Ownership. Wow. And it is, Will Nix is his last name. But the- It's called

JB Thibodeaux

Extreme Ownership?

Ed Mathews

Extreme Ownership, yeah. And he's a former SEAL, if I recall. Wow. But but yeah, tremendous. It- it's very much in line with what you just described, so I think you'd enjoy that. Okay. So speaking

Daily reset, ownership, and Extreme Ownership

Ed Mathews

of owning it I'm always interested in our teachable moments, right? And so I'm curious about a professional mistake or even a, like a decision that you look back on, years removed, and go, "Man, I, I would love to have that decision back because I would..." And I'm curious, what's, what is that for you?

JB Thibodeaux

I would say the too much focus on what everybody else doing and not focusing more on what God has blessed you with, I think that in this time and day, we tend to compare ourselves or our journey to others, and not understanding that we just seeing the outside and not really seeing the inside. And if we just focus on our journey. A lot of guys in this business in 2015 bec- when I started off in focusing on developing this business was 2015. A lot of people that started are not here now. So the sustainability for that they've gone and fell by the wayside, and things like that. And these are some of the people that I thought were the movers and shakers, and saw the bells and the whistles, and things like that. And it kinda it would bog me down "Oh, I'm making this mistake, and making that mistake." And, give you an example of listening to my hero, my father He told me, Yeah, I asked, I said Dad, how do you purchase a property?" That's how I didn't understand. If I'm purchasing a property, a wholesale deal, or I'm, it just a, for sale by owner what is the contract? And he told me, "All you need is a quick claim deed, and just write a quick claim deed, and just give the man the money, and go down there to Mr. Hal and he'll notarize it." Well- I bought 23 houses my first year in the, in real estate in 2015, and six of those houses, Ed, were with quitclaim deeds. And it wasn't until I tried to sell them that I found out that in the state of Texas, that quitclaim deeds are uninsurable and they're not recognized as ownership, and so I tell people good information in the wrong season can be detrimental. So listening to the gurus, I went out and I bought all of these houses talking about I need to buy doors. And so these homes range from 8,000 to 30,000 to 20,000. So they was boarded up, beated up, tax issue houses and different things. And it took me two years to recover from 2015. If it wasn't going to the courthouse and seeing that renters knew the game more than I did, and they know how to... S- I had one renter stay in the property for a year and a half before I was able to evict them rent-free. It was the city of Houston attacking me and coming after me for all type of development things and building up. So the amount of money I was making, I was paying way more out every month listening to- A lesson "Hey, you need doors. You need properties. You need to have these to rent." It was great information, but it wasn't my season. And so it took me two years to recover that. And so that was my understanding of learning that piece. And I wish, it helped me now because I'm able to pass that information on to my clients and know the different types of deeds and go how to, do heirship and how to clear up, obtain the titles and things like that, 'cause I had to do it all manually. And now you're an expert at that, right? And now I'm an expert, so now I don't even need a examiner. And when I go to a title company, I can tell them when I'm looking at the Schedule C and things like that. I see some of these things and I'll be, "Oh, man. Oh, this can be cleared. This can be cleared." I had to do all of that manually. But listening to my old hero dad. No. That's awesome.

Ed Mathews

Hey, it's... But it, like you said, it's, Yeah you're now an expert, so-

JB Thibodeaux

Yeah. No, it's a blessing

Ed Mathews

it's a good

JB Thibodeaux

thing. Yes,

Ed Mathews

sir. So I'm curious about how you take in information. It- Obviously you've learned a lot from just doing, right? Yeah. But I'm also curious about how learn to like, how do you learn to run the business and create operational leverage and scale the business and all that? Yeah. So I guess the bottom line is, what is that e- the either the book or the conference or YouTube videos or creator or whatever, w- who are you paying attention to these days, and how do you take in information like that?

JB Thibodeaux

Find myself listening to a lot of Audible. I'm a big Audible guy- Yeah, me too because I'm going back and forth

Book recommendation: The Miracle Morning

JB Thibodeaux

from the job sites or doing different things and stuff like that. So I'm a big Audible podcast guy and just listening to things and while I'm in the truck. And everything in Houston is 45 minutes away, so the drive is extensive. And there's no fast way

Ed Mathews

to

JB Thibodeaux

get anywhere. Yeah. There's not no fast. But I think the most impactful book that I just that I recently read read is The Miracle Morning. Yeah. And man, that Miracle Morning has changed my perspective in getting back to having that discipline starting my day. Because I get bombarded with phone calls at night- Yeah that tend to lean into the morning, and my day and text starts at 4:00, 5:00 in the morning when guys are texting me on the sites and things like that. I had to discipline my home life to get into the better schedule to be able to learn how to shut things off and to rest You know what I mean? And that helped me in scaling my business, believe it or not. Believe it. Having the whole discipline for, yeah, it's never gonna be balanced for entrepreneur. You know what I mean? And sometime the scale of a balance will look like that for entrepreneur where you have one side. But from a mental standpoint and perspective for your wife and your children and people that you care about in your life, you have to know when to turn it off and when to turn it on. Yes. And then also s- create that discipline so that you can have that woosah moment in the morning. And I think that's my most quietest time is to get that that Miracle Morning for me to wake up at 4:44 in the morning. Get, to get that hour-and-a-half start where I'm just- Yeah just me. No phone, no anything. Try to work out a little bit. But just have that time with God and just really sit down and recalibrate what's going on in my spirit and my mentally. Because you can get bogged down by issue after issue, and it can really stressfully just take a hold of you, man. Yeah. And so that has helped me of recapturing my inner person to help me to be prepared for everything else that I'm doing with my staff and my team and my subs on these projects and stuff. Yeah. 'Cause it can be trying when you're dealing with people from different walks of life who may have been doing this one or two times out of their lives. And so everything is emotional for them. And then

Hustle vs. Business: the reframe

JB Thibodeaux

it can get you emotional that you do it every day, and not being able to see every file as just a file that has a number but, or a house address. But to really see that these things are impacting people. So what we do is really purpose-driven. Yeah. And there's families that are gonna be living in these units. There are families that are affected by these projects and stuff. There's families affected by the subs and things that we're doing. Yep. And and I realize and I have to reassure myself that every morning. And that Miracle Morning- Yeah book helped me. Yeah.

Ed Mathews

Without a doubt. That's an excellent- Yeah excellent book. If, if- Yeah if the folks listening haven't read that book, that is something- Yeah you should put high priority on your list. You know- Yeah. And it's interesting. So we manage our own properties here. And, and- Oh, wow I always... Yeah. The, But the, the thing that I always remind our team is A, it's not personal, right? Yeah. So even if someone is emotional, everybody's- dealing with something, and you couldn't possibly- Yeah know what it is 'cause it happens- Yeah in their lives behind closed doors. And, so you just have to give people grace. And- yeah and but it's hard when, they're upset about something and you bring them- you introduce yourself into their situation. And then, they're already emotional from something else, and then you come in and whatever. Good or bad. And- Yeah but I always tell pe- I always tell our team, our field team in particular always remember somebody, everybody's dealing with something.

JB Thibodeaux

And Ed, I the lesson I learned was from a attorney of mine Damian Lacroix, and he told me he said, "Hey, man, it's not... when we are in this hall and we walking through the county courthouse hall," and he told me, he said, "Hey, man, this is where the lesson end. In this hallway, it's not about wrong or right." And it and he said, "You, we can sit here and we can fight all day about proving you right, JB, or we can save you money." Which one you want? 'Cause ain't nobody get- those are not the same thing And so when you come from that perspective, 'cause it's not the same thing. And so he said, when you're a business owner and things like that, and I, that's why I say find these gurus because if you don't know how to have the right temperament and the approach with people and understanding different walks of likes and being able to deescalate a situation before it get to that, it may cost you. And it may cost you to the point to prove you wrong, or being able to know how to do some workarounds would be more beneficial than you spending all this money with these attorneys and everything else- 'cause they win in the end and not you.

Ed Mathews

Yep. You can be right or you can get on with your life.

JB Thibodeaux

Yeah, that's it. Good choice. And then move on. And that's it. And that, and I do that when I run a portfolio. I remember when we were starting, when I told you that 2015 and I was trying to be my property manager and things like that, and we would get emotionally tied to these situation. I say, "I need a buffer. I need a staff member or somebody," because you can get bogged down by all these sob stories, but then you gotta also know you gotta run a business. And you gotta have some systems and have some margin ranges in there, being knowing what you're flexible with and what you're not flexible with. And then it's a case by case, but sometime as you grow, you need to have some of these pocket, you know- Yep windows where you just say, "Hey, we can't get over those margins with our units and stuff." And so- Yeah.

Ed Mathews

Yeah, right on. So the other thing that I'm curious about, and it's sometimes it's hard for people to articulate

Property management as a discipline ("it's not personal")

Ed Mathews

because they live it daily. But I'm curious about what success means to you in your personal life.

JB Thibodeaux

And I told my team three years ago the biggest success that we had was that everybody that came in our office received a check. And what I mean is that, that we were able to pay. You gotta understand, COVID hit the Houston market real hard.

Ed Mathews

Yeah.

JB Thibodeaux

We were, we as developers were growing and when I'm talking about permanent projects, when we're doing pocket developments and stuff, things were staggered. There were loans that we were in the midst of. They still want- everybody wanted their money regardless, interest rates and everything, and that just delayed projects and stuff to get us to this point. But those times prepared us for these times, and I think one of the biggest successes that we were able to maintain and to have growth every year. And so when I'm able to see families smile and seeing projects, because I said you can do everything right and still something can come awry. Sure. There's still some people that you no matter what you do, you will not please because they're coming from their own understanding and- perspectives and things like that. And you have to allow that to go along with your success. And I, the way we examine success is our growth. Are we growing personally, professionally, and are we moving the scale like that in this market and sustaining?

Ed Mathews

That's fantastic. So when you're not talking about real estate or development what do you like to do for fun?

JB Thibodeaux

Man, I, Ed, I'm gonna have a secret that I have. My wife is Tiffany and we're old heads and we started over. So I have fun on the weekends as we have two children that's under three years old, and I tell people that- That's wild kids is a young, kids is a young man's sport. So if you getting over thir- Yeah if you getting over 35, you, hey man I would say do a surrogate or adopt. Because if you having these kids and stuff, you need the energy and the wherewithal mentally and physically- Yes just to maintain with them. And so that, we spend a lot of time. And, but I enjoy it. Though as

Life outside real estate

JB Thibodeaux

much I complain about it, I enjoy seeing my children when I come home, and the pitter-patting of the feet when I step in the door-

Ed Mathews

Something

JB Thibodeaux

awesome about that to the weekend time that we spend with them together as a family has been my joy. And that's actually been my my s- what reduces the most of my stress is our family time that we have over the weekends. Yeah. Yes,

Ed Mathews

sir. It's the best thing you'll ever do. I-

JB Thibodeaux

Man, and I... And the older kids, we wish that they was there present, but they gone doing their things and stuff like that. But when they come by and stuff, that, it just makes, having that family time is the best thing for me.

Ed Mathews

It's an amazing thing. Yeah. Being a parent is literally the best thing you'll ever do.

JB Thibodeaux

Hey,

Ed Mathews

and it

JB Thibodeaux

helps to have your wife in the business with you, yes.

Ed Mathews

I'm sure. I'm sure. Yes, sir so JB, I've really enjoyed this conversation here. Yes, sir. If folks wanna learn more about your business or get to know you a little bit, what's the best way to get in touch?

JB Thibodeaux

The best way to get in touch with us is to start with our website at jbtibodeaux.com. All of the information about our business and what we're doing at that time is on our website at JB

Where to find JB online

JB Thibodeaux

Tibodeaux- Okay j-B T-H-I-B-O-D-E-A-U-X.com. And then hit us up on our social media social media at _jbtibodeaux. All

Ed Mathews

right. Awesome.

JB Thibodeaux

Yes,

Ed Mathews

sir. JB Tibodeaux, thank you so much for joining us today. Yes, sir. It's really good to meet you, and congratulations on all your success. Continued good fortune.

JB Thibodeaux

Likewise, brother. Blessings to you and your family. Thanks. Yes, sir. Thank you, sir.

Head Shot

Ed Mathews

Host